Jane’s too stiff to move, neck and shoulder and lower back all out; plus aloe on the road-rash every hour—she is scared to death the lip is going to scar permanently. I gained 6 whole pounds during the con that are going to have to come off the hard way…sigh. We are collectively a mess.
But we’re back at work. We’ve got so much cleanup to do in the house—and yesterday Jane was just done in. I think we’re going to be off the rink for a bit more—for one thing, Jane doesn’t want to go out in public because it means putting makeup on the road-rash that just makes it harder to heal.
And when I tried to make a grocery run, our car battery died again. Flat. Dead. We put it on trickle-charge and it wouldn’t resurrect. So I called AAA, and got the senior battery tech at a rescue company that does batteries for AAA. From him, I got a wealth of info, which I will pass along cheap.
Our battery, installed just last Wednesday, had totally drained. Again.
The train of events: we used the car with its new battery three days, then took out for the weekend. Came back to use it: dead, drained battery.
We called AAA: they couldn’t test it, it was so flat. So they used the jumper box, and we got a little power out of it. A reading light came on. Ha! the culprit. So we tried for an hour to charge up the battery, but it had been too damaged, and they very kindly replaced the battery—again. We’re pretty sure the last one was too dead to resurrect, probably a collapsed cell, since we couldn’t jump it—but on this one, I’d left a reading light on.
And here’s what I learned:
1) a reading light draws a ferocious lot of current, more than a trickle charger puts in. Which is why the trickle charger we put on when we discovered it flat hadn’t a prayer of resurrecting it at all.
2) even better: back a couple of decades ago, car designers quit using generators and voltage regulators, relying only on the alternator to recharge the battery, and ever since then, cars have had this trouble: the number of gadgets installed that draw current EVEN WHEN THEY’RE OFF is huge. Your plug-ins; your computer; various whiz-bang gadgets, like your phone, etc.
3) The alternator on a 3 block trip will re-supply your car with, say, about 100 units of power. The 3-block trip DRAWS 150 from the battery, including 2 ignition-starts. So every 3-block trip you make is a net loss of 50 units, which adds up and up and up, sort of like slowly bleeding to death. If you drive at high speed for 30 minutes the alternator charges the battery up again to full. But if ALL you do is short trips, your car battery goes flatter and flatter and flatter, because the deficit is never made up.
4) add in the perpetual drain of a few electronic devices like the computer that makes the car work, your door locks, your clock, your plugged-in gps, and park the car for a few days unused, and down, down, down goes your battery. Leave it a certain number of days (depending on make, model, short-trip habits, and what you have installed) and you have a dead battery. Reliably. They lecture you about leaving devices plugged in around the house that eat up current? That’s nothing. Your car is rife with them, and collectively they’re battery-killers.
5) one of the newest BMW models has so many whiz-bangs you have to drive the car every 3 days or have it on a battery charger. If you have a short-trip car that you leave undriven for days and you have battery problems, get a trickle charger—there are models that you can plug in with the hood closed. But you do have to have a power source. If your car lives in an apartment parking lot, you simply have to drive it for 30 minutes once a week, no matter what. And if you are going to be gone on a 2-week trip, have the spouse drive YOUR car one day a week, to be sure you don’t have battery problems when you get home.
This little piece of info is not generally understood by the public at large, and I just thought I’d pass it on.
Are you referring to the Dome light? That should still not draw more than 50mA.
Reading light, one of a paired set by the roof console. A dome light could have done it, over 2 days and nights. But reading lights are more intense than a dome light, and it still had 2 days and nights to drain—plus the standard drains for key-off use by computer, door locks, clock, preset radio stations [uses memory in radio]; remembered state for air conditioning [another chip]; remembered state for various power devices, and on cars that have various ‘user’ features, such as presets for steering wheel position and seat position, even more. Everything you pre-set in a car, from favorite radio stations to your local time and your current trip mileage all, all, all drink power constantly to hold that information for next use.
Here is some info: key-off drain ranges from 20-50 milliamps, on and on for days, depending on model; and on some Fords, up to 850 milliamps for up to 20 minutes after key-off, then dropping to 20-50 after that.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/battery_runs_down.htm
Leave things plugged into the lighter/plugins, and it can be worse.
This is one reason why we try to avoid gadgetry in cars to the extent that my husband resents the onboard computer in his 1986 BMW 535i…
My Subaru won’t power anything using a lighter-jack when the ignition is off, at least. It does support whatever onboard computer it has and the alarm system (I lived in the DC area when I bought it) but I haven’t had any horrific experiences even leaving the car when on multi-week trips. Eventually it will die, it’s a ’98 with over 220k miles on, and then I’ll really have to worry about finding another manual transmission with minimal gadgetry!
Thanks for the links!
I have heard of people using cocoa butter to prevent scarring.
There isn’t anything in your car that could stay on without your being aware of it is there? I only mention it because my neighbor discovered that his constant battery problems were not due to the winter weather but his trunk light not turning off. He was so annoyed he cut the wire and started keeping a flashlight in the trunk.
Your car woes make me even more convinced to hold on to my old 4Runner!
Once Jane has healed, Vitamin E Oil every night to minimise scarring.
My dermatologist recommended Vitamin E, but he said to just get some E soft-gels, cut one open, and squeeze the Vitamin E out on the scar. Much cheaper that the lotions. And it does work.
Seconds this.
Many years ago, I got a very bad burn at work. Spilled boiling soup on my arm, and the burn blistered, popped, and blistered again, under the popped blisters. I got no treatment for this — had to stay at work. But I have no scars. I used Vitamin E on it several times a day. It’s good stuff.
My cousin tells me that she’s read that you can even reduce old scars this way. Haven’t tried that, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
The sneakiest is a trunk or glovebox light that doesn’t switch off. But no, on a brand new battery, not yet run on the road, that reading light did it.
CJ, also keep in mind that a brand new battery, taken off the shelf and installed in the car, is not fully charged (unless specifically charged in advance, unlikely). So you started from less than 100% anyway.
Let’s see, there’s the clock, the on-board computers, and for my car, that’s about it. Well, it is for the original manufactured item. I’ve added a power take-off directly from the battery for my ham radio gear, because it’s safer that way, not only for the radios, but also for the car and the operator. Hook those things up wrong and you could have a short through the radio as the starter draws a ton of current. You touch the radio and you can get a severe shock, not to mention having the displeasure of watching a $400+ transceiver blow up right beside you.
My power outlet shuts off when I turn the key off. I have left those map reading lights on inadvertently and found them on the next morning. Fortunately, I was able to start the car. I don’t have the daytime running lights, Honda stopped using those except for the Canadian models, so I run with my headlights on, which also turns on the parking lights, side markers, taillights, the other stuff that needs to be lit or dimmed, etc. The radios have to be turned off by their own switches or else they’ll sit there and drain the battery. I’m on my second battery for this car, which isn’t too bad, considering that the original battery lasted as long as it did.
Still, i’t best to make sure everything is off. BTW, Smartcat, wouldn’t it have been better for your neighbor to just remove the light bulb? That way, unless he taped up the wires separately, he stands a chance of shorting them against each other.
I’ve also heard that cocoa butter doesn’t work. My orthopedists have recommended taking a Vitamin E capsule, piercing one end of it with a needle, and then applying the tocopherol directly to the wound site, rubbing it in well. Just be careful when piercing that capsule, they’re slippery little buggers, and if the needle misses the capsule and instead pierces your finger, it’s quite painful.
Honey is very good for skin abrasions – preferably raw, unheated honey.
It’s anti-bacterial, non-allergic, soothing, good for sensitive skin, and promotes rapid healing. Just keep applying it straight out of the jar. It’s been used for wounds, burns, scrapes, etc. for millennia.
I’ll pass these suggestions on! And she will thank you. She has a perfect little x cut into her upper lip.
My 10-year-old manual transmission Peugeot has a buzzer that goes of when I turn off the ignition and open the car door if any of the lights are still on. It was very cheap (less than $20, installed, if I remember correctly – it was 10 years ago!), and it’s saved me from flat batteries several times.
I’m not a do-it-myself kind of person regarding cars or electricity, but I found a site that seems to explain the sort of gadget I mean, except it says nothing about opening the car door: http://www.gbnetwork.co.uk/circuits/carlights/car_light_reminder.html
It might be worthwhile to ask your garage about something like this, next time your car has to go in; or that helpful AAA person, or a car-knowledgeable friend.
Also, beware of cut-rate batteries. If you are getting your replacement batteries from an auto repair place or someplace that specializes in them, fine, but there are certain large retailers whose stock either sits around and goes stale, or sells batteries that are, essentially, seconds. I had a run in with one of those major retailers (whose name begins with a W) and went through 3! batteries that died after being in the car a total of 1 week (the original battery was still under warranty). They never admitted that they were selling a run of bad batteries, even though they had to charge them for an hour each time I got the new one; I found out searching online that certain models of batteries from this retailer were notorious for not holding a charge. I eventually got angry about the runaround and bought a replacement at our local auto parts store. Performed like a champ.
IMHO the best battery deal is from AAA. If you do have trouble, they come to you, even out on the road, anywhere in the USA, and as per these guys: they replaced my legitimately dead battery in January, my probably defective battery in May, and my definitely-my-fault battery less than a week later. I paid on the first one, but the other two, not, and they don’t deduct a battery call from your yearly 3 freebies if you buy a battery from them, or if they are dealing with a bad battery. So I STILL have 3 freebie calls. It sure beats trying to contact Sears on Memorial Day and struggle through claims…and getting your car to them. These guys were there inside an hour, on all calls.
One other battery problem is when you buy one. The company is supposed to give it a full charge.
That however takes time to do, and in the world of hurry up now, you are liable to get one with
a minimal charge brand new.
Electricity is ubiquitous, knowledge about it seems to be less so. The old custom of blowing out
the carbon buildup with a high speed run now and then also recharges the battery.
The worst thing about alternators is they have to have enough battery to create the magnetic
field in the Stator (stationary part). You could push start a generator equipped car and drive
it without a battery in the olde days.
Jane will be fine if she leaves it alone. It isn’t going to leave a Heidelberg duelling scar,
that type of injury always looks a lot worse than it is.
Hope Jane will feel better soon!
I’ve managed to discharge the battery in my current car completely once, and last time I was lucky – it had gone flat, I talked to it, and it gave me enough charge to jump to life. By the time I was at the supermarket four miles away (no idea how that translates to ‘block’) it had enough charge to start sweetly, and since then, it’s been fine again.
It’s very annoying when it happens, though.
The demand for convenience features seems to have won over the demand for reliability in many newer vehicles.
We’ve just traded in a ’96 Voyager that was regularly killing batteries. It is a bad sign when, with no key in the ignition switch, there is enough current being drawn to cause sparks as you connect terminals to a new battery.
The vehicle had an under-hood light that seemed like a nice feature but turned into a nasty one. If the vehicle’s hood was raised to, say, charge the battery, the hood light would be drawing significant power. If the hood wasn’t fully closed after charging the battery, you could count on a drastically drained battery after a few hours. Wait overnight at the battery is dead and probably damaged.
Also, after turning off the ignition and locking all the doors, the interior dome lights would be full on, hopefully dimming some time later. What an unreliable setup!
The guy told me that the worst situation is for older drivers, senior citizens who barely make it to the supermarket or the docs, a few blocks away—particularly seniors with posh land yachts that are supposed to be so safe. Every time they turn around, they’ve got another battery-down call, because the alternator recharge system can’t handle just a weekly tootle, and does not fully recharge. They need a plug-in recharge system, but may not be mechanical (or physically) adept enough to handle it. The guy said he has a huge number of fixit calls from seniors in just that situation.
Cold weather is hard on the battery, too – I’ve needed to jump my ’99 Corolla once or twice after shifting its position in the driveway in the winter. I avoid doing that now, and all has been well. I commute 17 miles each way to work, so there’s never a chance for short trips to accumulate. I also haven’t had problems with leaving it sitting for 3+ weeks at a time – the longest was 2.5 months, though I think it got driven at least once during that time.
I only recently heard anything about not letting the battery sit too long unused because we just replaced our other car with a 2010 Honda Insight (hybrid), and the manual says to drive the car at least once a month for sake of the hybrid battery. It doesn’t mention problems with the 12V battery sitting for long periods of time, though the directions for storing the car tell you to disconnect it. I’m sure that car has a lot more energy-drawing gizmos than my old Corolla…
Jane’s philtrum won’t scar. Trust me. You DO trust me, don’t you? 😉
😉 It’s looking better: she’s doing aloe non-stop right now, and will add E. We just got back from Dr. Shane’s, and he crunched everything pretty well back into shape and wants to see her Monday. She kind of accordion’ed.
But Cougar Country was closed for repairs! Wah! We missed our blackberry/crunchy peanut butter shake! This is unprecedented!
Where, oh where have you gone, OSG? we miss the green lady. 😉
Jeepers, this makes me glad that I have an older car.
My cousin used to have terrible problems with her battery and her alternator dying on her constantly. And after having to cash in her battery/alternator guarantee in far too many times, they suggested a fix that I don’t think would work in your case, sadly. They suggested she get the next step up battery. Something bigger than what usually goes with her size car. And it did solve the problem.
But again — she has a big, old car, with no gadgets. (frowns) Very sorry. 🙁 There is absolutely nothing more frustrating than finding your car batter dead. And it’s never at a convenient time.
I knew there was a good reason to turn the dome light off. (Also, from experience, I keep the radio off as much as possible.)
I was told when my car’s battery died, a couple of years ago, that these days they go quickly when they go, rather than the more gradual death that they used to have.
(I have an ’02 Prius. The battery is not one that AAA normally carries, and it’s not cheap either. Fortunately they were able to jump it well enough that I could make it the couple of miles to the nearest dealer.)
I don’t have the self control not to comment on this.
A dome light left on overnight will knock a full charged battery below the level necessary to start a car (or work electric locks, sometimes) on a 1986 Nissan Sentra, a 1990 Pontiac 6000 and a 1994 Ford Taurus station wagon. The Taurus, my current auto (New York City) seems to be the worst on the power drain issue in the Lock Off position, though the Sentra would drain the battery if you were parked waiting for someone with the motor running 20 or 30 minutes (we do that in New York, it’s legal and called “standing” in a “no parking” zone, usually a fire hydrant; if a fire truck comes, you’re in the car and can just move) with the heater on, raining out, lights on (though you may not realize it) and lord knows what else, the battery could go dead. On the occasion in question I believe I had two antsy five year olds with me waiting in the closed car on a frigid afternoon. Luckily I was “standing” on upper Park Avenue, and was able to pull the cables out of my trunk, stand in the driving 40 degree rain holding them out as if signaling a cab. $20 and a couple of minutes got my started, though I sat, soaked, in the rapidly cooling automobile for an indeterminate period of time racing the motor to recharge the battery trying to explain to the kids why it wouldn’t have been the best idea in the world to jump out on the street and watch. Not my worst dead battery experience, but one of the most unexpected.
Supporting your observations, leaving ANY light on in a 1980s/1990s auto overnight will make it unstartable in my experience. Two days will flat-line it. Later cars sound like they’re even worse. Which surprises me a little as I assumed that LED lighting would have cut down on some of the current drain. Maybe I’m totally wrong, or the other dodads have more than replaced any improvement in lighting drain.
On the other hand, with the engine running, a very short period of charging time (a minute perhaps) is/was required to build up the battery enough to restart the Pontiac or Ford unless the battery was totally flatlined. My wife only works 4.3 miles from home (and three train transfers) three days a week. Sometimes we don’t drive for days, and the car has always started (thank God for fuel injection and electronic ignitions) even in 10 degree F. weather. Unless we left a light on, or the alternator had failed yet again, or if someone had smashed a window and stolen the battery (also Thank God you had to use power tools to remove the battery on the Pontiac!, discouraging thieves). The Pontiac and especially the Ford can be misleading because some lights stay on for a few minutes after you shut up the car and walk away, disguising the fact that, typically, the dome light was left on.
About alternators vs generators, I always thought that alternators were supposed to be more reliable than generators (But I never owned anything older than a 1961 Plymouth Valiant (alternator; car cost $125). Recent problems I’ve had have been due to breakage on the springs of the tensioner wheels they use with the serpentine belts (another of my pet peeves–anything goes/freezes on the belt and you can’t drive the car) driving most auxiliaries from modern transverse engines. This, for two cars, has put an unnatural pressure on the alternator bearings resulting in premature failure–and the alternator light on my Pontiac would never indicate when the alternator stopped charging (a gauge, Please!). Also, before serpentine belts and transverse engines, I could swap out an alternator in 30 minutes, and I’m not all that handy except out of necessity. Putting one of those belts on is beyond me, however. I would never get it right.
Yes, I love modern, front-wheel drive autos. And the Pontiac 4-cylinder was the most economical I ever owned (mileage) though you would never guess it from the body size (pure GM). But there are a number of trade offs. The computers and power drain appear to be one. I’ve often thought that a small solar panel on the roof powering a small exhaust fan when internal temperature exceeded 100 or so (40 C.) plus routing any excess electricity to recharge the battery would make a lot of sense (I’ve also seen this suggested elsewhere) but apparently the auto companies have seen no way to make such relatively small investment a sales feature comparable to 500 horsepower (or whatever) engines.
Sorry to have inflicted so many rants on you. And yes, I had to call AAA to a parking lot in a mall in New Jersey last week, so this is a sore issue. They were wonderful; the dispatcher knew exactly where I was in the mall’s huge complex of parking lots. I had apparently brushed against the headlight switch when I put a new ignition switch in earlier that morning. Worked fine, left for the mall (live a block from the GW Bridge), and didn’t realize that the headlights were on in the bright sunlight.
Obviously Ford’s fault for designing a car in which it was so easy to brush against a light switch as you are upside down underneath the steering wheel. The switch itself WAS easy to replace, however.
I feel your pain. Between Jane’s seldom-driven car and the recent battery issues in the Subaru, we are on a first name basis with the AAA guy… 😉 Fortunately both our cars have had the consideration to go flatline IN the garage on a major thoroughfare.
I did ask the battery guy how the hybrids were in this department: he owns one, a Honda civic, and he loves it. It is a semi-hybrid. He has seen Priuses that locked the owner outside on a battery failure, though I’m not sure why a simple key would not resolve this. Sounds like a design issue to me. And it also seems to me that a dual battery system would be very nice, one that at least would give you one ignition if the main battery flatlined. A simple idiot-proof item: an emergency-ignition switch that would simply get you started so you could get to the nearest garage, and instructions that say ‘go there immediately and do not pass go.’
If those Priuses (Prii?) are more recent than about 2003, they might have the keyless entry/ignition thing, which is all electronic and would probably be the problem. (The earlier ones have an actual ignition/door key, along with the usual remote-unlocker keyfob.)
As Evans indicates, me replacing a falling apart (but still functioning) ignition tumbler, with a $16 replacement appears to be a thing of the past. the “keyless” ignitions and, I suppose, door locks appear to be the current and future norm, judging by a recent car rental. The likely multiplication of probabilities of dead battery/short catastrophes has passed through my mind also. My super commented about one new replacement ignition “key” that could only be purchased from a dealer for $100. Don’t know how typical …
These are probably “chipped” keys which talk to the ignition module and permit a start–no chippie, no startee (but crankee just fine, which is just annoying). Such is the system on my ’02 F-150. So you can’t dupe the key at Wal-mart. In ’02, when I boutht the extra spare key, it was $75.
Long time fan and shade-tree mechanic here- A simple test of the alternator with a multi-meter (you probably have one): Across the battery terminals with car running should read ~14.5 volts dc, even at idle. If it shows 12 volts or less your alternator is gone. You’d be surprised how many mechanics miss this. A new battery will last about as long as you mentioned with a bad alt. A good mechanic, even at a place like Auto Zone, upon hearing you want a new battery will go outside with a meter and say, ‘pop the hood and start the car’, and check this first. You can find a rebuilt alt. for $120 or maybe less. It’s a great knuckle scraping job if you want to try this yourself. My college- age son has a Forester.
Also FYI- your headlights draw 55 amps @ 12v, and short of a hot tub nothing hooked up to the electrical system comes close to this (although I’ve never plugged in a laptop to a car). I live on short trips and never had battery problems like this that didn’t turn out to be the alternator (twice on 7 cars between me, my wife and kids since ~1980).
Love your work and if I’m right about the car just reward me with one scene where Jago Taser’s Barb. (I just bought Deceiver so don’t spoil it if you already included this. But Tasers? New tech on the mainland- has possibilities.)
You are going to *love* Deceiver! 😉
Let’s all keep in mind that a starter draws ca. 300 Amps while engaged, or at least that was the typical number back when. For the uninitiated, that’s a LOT. It’s the main reason why you’re not supposed to grind a starter for longer than 10 seconds or so–things get warm.
Tinfoil’s right about the voltmeter, too, if you’re not showing well over 12A (13A minimum) at idle, you may not have a battery problem at all; first and last check should always be, “am I putting out volts, or just using volts?”
Typical laptop power supplies draw 90W long-term (i.e. 7-8A@12V), but could pull as much as twice that for relatively short periods.
Well, and another thing gone with the more efficient cars is the rolling start—used to be if you could push a car into fair motion you could start it with a turn of the key. No more for that! I used to work with one that started that way as often as the ordinary one. But that all went with the old ignition system.