It’s still a little stiff, but I’m the one who can loosen a keyboard right up. Bigtime. And reversing buttons on the mouse made things behave sanely. I hate trying to drag anything by curling my thumb under my hand to push and hold a stupid button. Whoever thought of that must have been left-handed. Now that drag and drop is leftward, I can push and hold with it completely out from under my palm. That helps.
insert, home, pg up, down, end, and delete are all in a little cluster above backspace. Actually more convenient. And I’ve got the blue FN (function) buttons as alternates, but I can’t read those even with contacts AND glasses. Getting old-er is a pita. I’m sure there’s something useful in that lot.
Meanwhile we’re cleaning up the place. We have a beautiful waterlily table that’s been completely obscured with ‘stuff’ and Jane’s gotten it to where we hope there will be less ‘stuff’ on it. I’m sure we’ll see the prints of little kitteh paws as soon as the ‘children’ discover it’s a highway between their separate territories.
Haven’t heard from OSG since the con. She’s off doing something interesting, I hope.
And I’m mostly over the crud, except a little stuffiness and night-time cough. That’s a relief.
Commentary on the figure skating furor: I understand Plushie’s complaint but I wish he had put it in a more diplomatic manner. I was glad that Lysacek didn’t escalate it. Plushy was arguing for the old judging system, which would have counted his quad higher, but since he made errors and Lysacek actually made fewer, he still might not have won: a great deal would have rested with the taste of the judges. I prefer the ‘new’ system, which I’ve explained at some length, in which the judges have some discretion on G.of E., (grade of execution) of an element, but in which the judges must also judge whether an element has actually been performed. When skaters train, they are required, (and always have been) to fully complete, say, 3 turns about for a spin to count at all in their passing their requisite tests. I can do two rotations. I can’t do 3. I can’t pass a test on the spin until I can do 3. That’s the law all US skaters train by—but that rule has been apparently thrown out during the ‘old system’ judging, in which nobody was counting once you were a high test skater on a program. Well, in my way of thinking, a spin is a spin, but not when it’s scanted.
And here’s where I don’t ‘get’ what Galina’s done with Weir. You have tens of thousands of songs to pick from; you KNOW that if you perform certain moves after the halfway point of your program you score higher. Plushenko—same deal. You put all your high-score moves in first, reach the halfway point and have nothing in the tank as the program goes for its conclusion. It’s the job of the highly paid choreographer and coach to come up with a program that gives the skater the music and rhythm he/she needs to complete a spin—ie, there need to be a certain number of beats to let the skater finish each element without being rushed on to the next. So pick the music to fit the program—if you have to have the guy skating to Gilligan’s Island! If you don’t let him finish, his spin will be downgraded, and he will lose points hand over fist. This is where skaters bleed to death from small cuts.
There was a beautiful pair of skaters at the Spokane Nationals—you just wanted to scream in indignation, because on every single element, the music rushed them on. They gave up points on every spin —2.9 spin revolutions, counted as 2. Many, many times. 2.9 seconds on the spiral. Downgraded a full point. That’s what I mean bleeding from small cuts. This is not rocket science. And choreographers who have been pooh-poohing the new system and still composing as if they could make up their own rules—are collecting big money and killing their skaters.
Is that a left-handed compliment in your first paragraph? We left-handers are in our right minds! Right-handers don’t have a distinctive name for themselves. We are proud Southpaws!
Is Plushie being a prima donna about the fact that the judges used the new system – which they are required to do, otherwise, we’d end up with the fiasco that occurred in Salt Lake City with the judge having made up her mind ahead of time – yes, I know, she was paid off, but still, judges have rules they have to follow the same as skaters. I wonder if the skaters will finally get hot on their choreographers and coaches about rushing them through. You’re right, a 2.9 spin does not equal 3.0, and if the requirement says you count the number of completed spins, then there’s no gray area about it. I swear, I thought men were supposed to be grown up about things, not whine about how “in the old days, we did it this way….” The old days are done, son, get used to it. Or, life isn’t fair, get used to it..
I also think the only people against a more quantifiable scoring system are just out to cheat the system and don’t want the transparency that would demonstrate that.
The only thing I miss about the old system was having a consistent set of judges and having the placing determined by ordinals. To get technical: with ordinals, if there was a bias on the part of one of the judges to grade low or high, it created a bias that was roughly equal for each skater graded by that judge, and the ordinal system completely removes the impact of judges grading too hard or soft. With the new system and randomly discarding judges scores, that bias turns into a pseudo-random noise. And in scoring systems, noise means the wrong people could be getting medals.
I really would like it if the commentary on the TV actually identified when someone shorted a spin or move. Actually, I don’t even really want to hear Scott Hamilton anymore – just give me that audio track you talked about from Nationals where someone was actually counting out the moves so you could actually see for yourself.
It was wonderful to hear that. I immediately twigged to the requirements that apply to moves, ie, a rotation is 360 degrees, not 345…and hearing a soft count of ‘1-2-3, level 3 spin’ doesn’t detract at all from the music, but adds more drama when you hear the dread word ‘review’, meaning visually uncertain: judges will consult the videotape closeup of the feet, etc, on, say, a jump landing, making sure it was only one foot down, or a takeoff on the correct, not the cheat, edge. It’s like fencing (another sport I did: before precise judging equipment, only the fencers knew whether there’d been a hit, and only one knew for sure where: it goes that fast.) In skating, only the skater knows whether he felt an impact in only
one foot (correct) or both (cheated landing.) And he’s not required to say. 😉
I wish that wonderful radio channel would be available on all skating competitions.
Actually, it’s no longer random, as I understand it. High and low are tossed, the remaining numbers are averaged. That helps. The more I see the results of the no-longer-new system, the more I like it. (I’ve been a huge fan from the first time it was introduced)
I’ve never seen a competition judged under this system that had me screaming NOOOOOOO (which was, Carolyn can attest, a regular occurrence under the 6.0). And I can always see, once I look at the sheets, why the order came out as it did.
OTOH, that voice over counting rotations was the best ever.
I did not really understand this scoring system until you explained it during the Nationals; now it makes sense. Therein lies the problem, I don’t remember any announcer taking the time to explain just how the system works. Evan said in an interview that a skater is judged from his opening pose until the music ends. ( a DUH moment for me) When scoring changed, announcers should have explained clearly and concisely at the beginning of each broadcast….or at least have told viewers where to look on line…….and yes, I agree, there were some very strange judgements under the old system.
This has absolutely nothing to do with anything being discussed, but I just thought I would throw it out there for people to think about.
I was out at the Solvang Greyhound Gathering today, and have to say that you have picked a beautiful time of year to come to California. The drive out reminded me of how gorgeous this state can be. The mountains are cloaked in green, and wildflowers are blooming, and the sea was all shades of blue and turquoise and white where the waves were crashing into shore. And it always reminds me that mountains can have some very big valleys in them, as you come down out of the mountain pass into the flatlands with horses grazing in lush green pastures. The bad thing was that I had to keep paying attention to the road!
At the Gathering, there was an “animal communicator”, who I made an appointment with. I am not entirely sure that I believe in these people, but I figured it wasn’t going to make me broke, and as long as it’s not the only thing that I base my important decisions (like medical care) off of, it wouldn’t hurt anything. And she told me that the one thing that my Trink (that’s her in the avatar) would really like is something pink and feminine to wear, because a lot of people think that’s she male when they first see her. Which probably is not helped by the fact that I dress her in black and silver, or blue. So off I went to find a nice pink “something” for her. And I found a vendor who was selling very nice velvet harnesses, with _4_ shades of pink to choose from! This is where it actually got interesting. I was trying to figure out which shade of pink was best (cranberry, orchid, baby, or shocking), and the vendor suggested letting Trink pick. I didn’t really think it would work, but I took the first sample and held it in front of her, and she turned her head away. Second sample, same thing. Third sample, the shocking pink, she stretches out her nose and pokes at the color. Fourth sample, she turns her head away. And when I showed them again in a different order, she still nosed the shocking pink color, while ignoring the others. So, we’re getting a shocking pink harness. Trimmed out with a ribbon of pink and gold flowers, just to add that extra “feminine” touch to it.
The other odd thing was that the communicator said that she thought Trink was having some mild thyroid issues, which I personally didn’t pay too much attention to, because I am not going to base my medical decisions off of something like that. But when I got home, I had a message from my vet. I’d had Trink’s blood sampled on Thursday because I am planning on getting her teeth done and wanted to be sure she’d handle the anesthesia, and we’re monitoring how she’s handling her Metacam that she’s on. And the vet said that the thyroid levels were actually just a little bit on the low side, not bad enough to be significant in itself, but enough to either do more testing or monitor and see what’s going on in a few months. So now I am really wondering. And happy that I got the pink instead of the blue that was my first impulse! But has anyone else ever experienced anything like this?
Sorry to hijack the thread, but just had to tell someone!
ooooooooh. Cue Twilight Zone theme!
We’re looking forward to the drive…
and I think if a communicator interviewed Ysabel, she’d say this is an evil vampire cat with notions of world dominance….
Heh,heh…..Kitteh you say! I sense another fan of
“Icanhascheeseburger” my favorite place to get my
daily dose of belly laughs. Even my aunt(not a cat person)is now addicted.
Dear Pleshi gave an interview, pre-Olympics,in which he gloated over the fact that him winning the gold would be “vengeance over his enemies”.
the sneer on his face gave it a weaselly cast. It
never occurred to him that he might not get gold.
I actively plotted his downfall.
I too was disappointed in Plushy’s arrogance; he’s so good he doesn’t need the ego trip.
Breezy always wears a purple collar…lately with pink and green ribbons….her vet calls it “Breezy’s Bling” 😆
Now that I have the time, I am doing some major cleaning……it’s a new and exciting trip of discovery! 🙂
Jane can tell you: I’ve been around! We skated together on Friday! I will admit, I’ve been really, really busy but nothing unusual there: working out at the gym, & then went into the office for 4+ hours yesterday (Sat). Fittingly, I attended an IJS* judging seminar at the rink Friday evening in prep for next weekend’s local competition where it will be utilized.
Harking back to your comments on Olympic judging, the actual program scoresheets are online in PDFs. Unless the reader knows a fair amount about skating they are rather arcane — but people may find them interesting nonetheless to see how every element is broken down and graded. The Men’s Long, incl. Lysacek & Plushenko:
http://www.vancouver2010.com/ns/pdf/FSM010101C77B.pdf
*IJS = International Judging System
Thanks, OSG,…for the nerds among us it makes skating even more fun! 😆 Interesting that Plushie lost on execution….he and Evan were even on components.
I personally get very sceptical when I hear an official, in this case Mike Slipchuk, announce that
‘The right people are winning.’
Given the wholly untransparent nature of the judging it is very easy for officials to ensure that the people they think should win, do win.
The test is supposed to be that of the athlete, not of all the things which the athlete can buy in, like costumes and choreography.
Evan Lysacek refuses to attempt the quad because he injured himself trying to do it. That is his personal choice, but it is unreasonable to expect me not to prefer someone who goes back and does it over and over again till he gets it right.
That’s what the Olympics is supposed to be about.
Using Slipchuk’s approach we can take Usain Bolt’s 3 gold medals away; sure, he runs really fast but his footwork is so sloppy…
Since we’re at it, here are some more resources to make your eyes pop:
US Figure Skating opening page for judging:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/New_Judging.asp?id=354
Layperson’s overview of the IJS:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/New_Judging.asp?id=289
Last, but by no means least:
INTERNATIONAL SKATING UNION
Communication No. 1557
Single and Pair Skating
GOE and Levels of difficulty for the season 2009-2010:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/Content/2009-10%20Establishing%20GOE%20in%20Singles%20Short%20Program%20and%20Free%20Skate%20%28Includes%20Positive%20Aspects%29.pdf
My post about IJS resources includes 3 URLs, and is sequestered until Carolyn can ascertain I’m not a spammer & allow it through. 😉 It will show up soon…
*******
Stevie, that is why skating has multiple judges: there is no “stopwatch”. We can’t help but see it differently, every single one of us, layperson & judge alike. Please examine the Men’s Long scoresheet, the link to which I posted (above).
Of note, the high score & the low score are both discarded in the IJS.
I was going for the reductio ad absurdum approach to Mike Slipchuk but stopwatches don’t
tell us who won the race; fortunately for Usain Bolt he’s so good that he doesn’t need the freeze frame either.
Thank you for the pdf reference; a swift scan thereof makes it obvious that what I regard as ‘subjective’ aspects ie Choreography / Composition and Interpretation, all of which can be bought in by the skater, are highly susceptible to officials ensuring that “the right people are winning”.
And that’s before you even begin to consider the personal quirks of anonymous judges; taking the top and bottom score out is not generally regarded as a fool proof method of ensuring unbiased judging.
Barbara Caridad Ferrer has a fascinating snippet on the death of school figures at her blog:
http://fashionista-35.livejournal.com/543302.html
though I draw a very different conclusion to hers. Watching Janet Lynn skate is still thrilling; Trixie Schuba had wonderful skills but you would have to pay me to watch her, not the other way around.
And unless the sport proposes to become entirely amateur the views of the people who pay to watch it are of some importance…
This pdf is very “busy” — but it is the (photo-updated) handbook distributed at US Nationals explaining the IJS in layman’s terms. This brochure is part of the “IJS Initiative”, the multi-pronged effort by US Figure Skating to educate the public about the IJS and is well worth perusing!
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/IJS%20Handbook.pdf
Plus NBC is running the You be the Judge feature…try it. I’d be interested to know how many vote which way. In point of fact, you are still obliged to apply 2.9 v 3.0 to a spin or spiral regardless of how much you prefer Swan Lake to Gilligan’s Island. I don’t like, personally, Ben and Tanith’s long program music: I think it’s a mistake—but the thing’s they’ll be judged on are that 1-2-3 revolution thing, when all’s said and done. I actually prefer Plushie’s music and don’t like Lysacek’s costume, but there’s no way to prefer him over Lysacek in the numbers, because the numbers aren’t there. And I wanted them to be. But no-motion or a 3-beat hold does not rack up points. Footwork does. But you cannot re-use elements. For instance, if your straight-line footwork sequence (mandatory) contains 18 blinding fast 3- turns, you’ll look very busy, but only 2 of them count. If on the other hand, your sequence contains 2 rockers, 2 counters, 2 3-turns, etc, etc, you’ve already got 6 points. For the same reason, you can’t just do 6 quad salchows (if your knees lasted) instead of a requisite triple toe, triple combo, triple loop, salchow, lutz, etc. These are all different, with different technique, and it is thoroughly a points game: a triple-triple counts about what a quad does—frankly I think there should be a separate pointage for doing a quad with NO following jump, ie, can you ‘check’ motion and go into a plain skate—. And I think they should require a single rotation jump somewhere in there—because if there’s one thing some of these ‘super’ jumps blow, it’s ‘control’, as in a sustained single jump, not just a ‘pop’ into a double, but a real sustained single with good runout. It’s a different set of twitches, for sure, and if you start doing quads, do you lose that finesse? Some of our ‘retired to pro’ champions say it does affect you.
The NBC ‘You be the Judge’ feature is restricted to people in the United States, just as all the NBC videos of the competition are restricted to people in the United States; to put that in context, the Olympics are being watched by around 300 million people around the world.
Unsurprisingly some of us agree with Elvis Stojko, and this particular someone feels the matter should have been handled with finesse…
Well said, Carolyn!
I read the passages about the water feature in Regenesis, and then I saw your pond. I remember all the boating stuff in Conspirator, and of course we went canoeing. Given the way you seem to use personal experiences in some of your stories, I have to wonder if we’ll see Bren skating somewhere. (One suspects that Ilsidi would be involved, if only to make sarcastic comments about his technique.)
😆 Remember Bren used to be a downhill skier! And a pretty good one, give or take several incidents!
I do indeed, hence my suggestion above that Banichi would have handled it much, much better…
I’m still trying to fathom the left-handed remark about the mouse designer…….
Joe, it’s that they designed the doubleclick button to be under the palm of a righthander using the trackpoint mouse. But it would be neatly under the thumb of a leftie. So the default setup is made for a lefthander. Reversing the mouse button function (an option) puts the left-side button in as the doubleclick button, and makes it possible for a rightie to use the thumb-push without curling the thumb extremely UNDER the palm, a punch which is not too convenient, especially on drag and drop. 😉 Remember I use an eraserhead mouse, with 3 buttons operated generally by the side of the thumb, just under the spacebar. The mouse joystick is between and under g-h.
I’m reasonably ambidextrous with weapons like guns, bows, and swords—or used to be: I’m pretty out of practice with all the above; and tools like axes, screwdrivers, drills, etc, but not with writing or typing.
Stevie:
There is no need to have access to NBC’s “You Be The Judge” feature. Armed with IJS Communication #1557 (link above) & USFSA’s Trial Judge Chit #5
http://www.usfigureskating.org/Content/IJS%20Chits.pdf
and a pencil, you will be in business. I look forward to hearing how you do.
I’m not communicating well here; the only videos accessible to me are those from the BBC which do not have the full coverage of both skaters in both parts of their programmes.
I’m pretty confident that, even with the new rules, judges are supposed to actually watch the performance they are judging…
Definitely. They have to watch, and then re-watch, if the referee calls ‘review’, down to closeups of feet, to be sure. That’s why some results take so long—and it’s generally not good news if it does take a while: that means there were a LOT of ‘reviews’, each of which might be watched several times to be sure. And if the skater is coming that close to an ‘incompletion’ that often, it’s a good bet one of their moves is going to be downgraded. I’m going to see if I can get Plushie’s ‘long program’ sheet, and see what he did get credit for, v Lysacek.
Understand, I was really hoping Plushenko would win it…I *like* Plushenko, despite Lysacek is ours: I like his athleticism and his determination, if not his sense of discretion. I earnestly wish I had the same ‘call’ as we had watching nationals, when you could definitely tell who completed their elements.I’m suspecting the fault in Plushie was in his choreographer, but can’t tell that without checking the actual numbers….hmm. here it is: short program, Plushenko won, at 90.85; Lysacek 90.30; long program: Evan Lysacek won: 257.67
and Evgeni Plushenko 256.36
Wow! That’s close. Next down is 10 lower.
Let’s see if I can find out about what I suspect, which is the back (higher point for jumps) end of the program.
PLUSHENKO Evgeni
Total Score Executed Elements Factored Program Components Deductions
90.85 51.10 39.75 0.00
Planned Elements Executed Elements Base Value GOE Score
Quad. Toeloop + Triple Toeloop Quad. Toeloop + Triple Toeloop 13.80 1.00 14.80
Triple Axel Triple Axel 8.20 1.80 10.00
Triple Lutz Triple Lutz 6.00 1.20 7.20
Change Foot Combination Spin Change Foot Combination Spin 4 3.50 0.80 4.30
Circular Step Sequence Circular Step Sequence 3 3.30 0.70 4.00
Flying Sit Spin Flying Sit Spin 4 3.00 0.40 3.40
Straight Line Step Sequence Straight Line Step Sequence 3 3.30 0.60 3.90
Change Foot Sit Spin Change Foot Sit Spin 4 3.00 0.50 3.50
Totals Executed Elements 44.10 51.10
Music:Concierto de Aranjuez
Program Components Unfactored Score Factor
Choreography/Composition 7.85 1.00
Transitions/Linking Footwork 6.80 1.00
Interpretation 8.25 1.00
Performance/Execution 8.65 1.00
Skating Skills 8.20 1.00
Factored Program Components 39.75
Deductions Value
Time Violation 0.00
Music Violation 0.00
Illegal Element 0.00
Costume & Prop Violation 0.00
Fall 0.00
Interruption in Excess 0.00
Total Deductions 0.00
Now Lysacek
LYSACEK Evan
Total Score Executed Elements Factored Program Components Deductions
90.30 48.30 42.00 0.00
Planned Elements Executed Elements Base Value GOE Score
Triple Axel Triple Axel 8.20 1.20 9.40
Triple Lutz + Triple Toeloop Triple Lutz + Triple Toeloop 10.00 1.00 11.00
Triple Flip Triple Flip 5.50 1.20 6.70
Circular Step Sequence Circular Step Sequence 4 3.90 2.20 6.10
Change Foot Sit Spin Change Foot Sit Spin 3 2.60 0.60 3.20
Flying Sit Spin Flying Sit Spin 4 3.00 0.70 3.70
Straight Line Step Sequence Straight Line Step Sequence 3 3.30 0.70 4.00
Change Foot Combination Spin Change Foot Combination Spin 4 3.50 0.70 4.20
Totals Executed Elements 40.00 48.30
Music:Firebird by I. Stravinski
Program Components Unfactored Score Factor
Choreography/Composition 8.50 1.00
Transitions/Linking Footwork 7.95 1.00
Interpretation 8.75 1.00
Performance/Execution 8.60 1.00
Skating Skills 8.20 1.00
Factored Program Components 42.00
Deductions Value
Time Violation 0.00
Music Violation 0.00
Illegal Element 0.00
Costume & Prop Violation 0.00
Fall 0.00
Interruption in Excess 0.00
Total Deductions 0.00
I can’t make these things display in proper columns, but if you can figure it out, those are the scores: Plushenko won some things, Lysacek others, but the addition came down to 1 point and change.
stevie, you don’t need to go back & watch *any* videos. Not at all! Simply print out a few blank chits from the link above. Then, grab your pencil & “you be the judge” during whatever event happens to be on TV — there are quite a few yet left to go.
If you post which events you “judged”, I would be delighted to post the actual scoresheets on your (or anyone else’s) behalf so you can compare your marks with the actual results.
“You be the judge” helps educate about the complexities and expertise involved and truly is a very enlightening exercise. I highly recommend it. You may even find it enjoyable. Please let us know how you do.
Even without the technical judging expertise it seemed to us that Lysacek did an overall much better job than Plushenko, even without that jump – better choreography, smoother more graceful skating, much more pleasant to watch. But we had formed an animus towards P. from his pre-skating interviews, which made him appear to be an obnoxious and arrogant person – and that impression was only confirmed with his post-skating remarks.
So that is amazingly close. I apologize for sounding rude above re Plushenko – we wondered at the time if his presentation in the interview had to do with language issues. But it does seem that they had very different approaches. It is remarkable that the scores were so close.
I am very disappointed this evening – we had hoped to watch the ice dancing all evening but instead we saw one performance and the rest was all ski jumping! without a TIVO we will be relegated to computer videos in the morning. not happy campers here.
Reposted, from above. Scoresheets for the Men’s Long, incl. Lysacek & Plushenko:
http://www.vancouver2010.com/ns/pdf/FSM010101C77B.pdf
stevie posts: “I’m pretty confident that, even with the new rules, judges are supposed to actually watch the performance they are judging…”
stevie, please educate me on why you would make such an allegation. I very much want to know. In fact, you’ve made a number of sweeping statements that impugn the integrity of the event(s), competition rules, the officials and the judging itself. Your sarcastic statements make it clear over & over again you have no respect for any of it.
Please note I am *not* questioning a preference for one skater’s performance over another. I *am* questioning how you have formed your opinions about judging ethics and am hoping you will share your expertise with us. Are you a skater, former or current? A judge? A member of your national skating federation, current or former? Have you personally had some sort of negative experience, or perhaps know someone who has? Are you the parent of a competitive skater, current or former?
Your deep antipathy puzzles me & I am wondering why you are making the allegations you are.
Usually for proper columns, you go to a monospace font by using (open angle bracket)code(close angle bracket) Monospace Text (open angle bracket)/code(close angle bracket). Some WordPress doesn’t let me preview, all I can do is try it, but as you know, the typing window uses a monospace font. So, see if these line up:
Letter Letter Space
Length Letters Name Name
------ ------- ------ ------------
Short lllllll el not used
Figure 0123456 numbers figure space
Medium nnnnnnn en en space
Long mmmmmmm em em space
(Did you get your bookmarks transferred okay?)