…and yep, they took my review down. Really frustrating. Sort of like saying a doctor or surgeon won’t be allowed to comment on a medical matter…but hey, certain self-published writers have shamelessly gamed the system and self-promoted. We also suspect that it was a complaint that tagged my review, but maybe it was just a bot.
However that happened, Jane really, really needs some support on these books. Help right now is important, because sales and reviews help ‘position’ the book in terms of visibility to Amazon customers. So if you’ve intended to write a review for these books, now would give the maximum assistance to her.
Was this from you commenting on Jane’s book? I am confused; how did they distinguish you (the writer) from another person with the CJ Cherryh handle? Amazon seems pretty lax about people scraping Wikipedia articles and selling them as author’s original material. I wonder how they figured this one.
Authors have “author’s pages” on Amazon that link the email to the author. Some have tried creating an anonymous account, but Amazon apparently has bots that ferret out most of them.
The point is, author’s puffs are a time-honored tradition of helping readers make decisions and Amazon is zapping that while creating their own system of “reliable reviewers” reviewers they hand pick to review products chosen by them from the vendors who (as far as I can figure from their response to me) best grease their palms. It’s just one more hypocrisy from the 800lb gorilla.
This is the article I found about the author reviews:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov/02/entertainment/la-et-jc-why-is-amazon-deleting-writers-reviews-of-other-authors-books-20121102
The whole thing about the Vine program is insane. You see these reviews from these “chosen ones” on products of all sorts, and there’s all kinds of information on the net about how to become a reviewer, but finding out how to get your book reviewed by one of these chosen individuals requires an act of congress…or five emails to Amazon on the topic while you clarify that you don’t want to review, you want to be reviewed…and then it comes out that you have to be one of their “chosen vendors” and when you go to find out how to even get in the queue to be chosen, there’s nothing that explains it.
It very much reads to me like something that vendors of a certain size are given the chance to “buy into” the program the same way you have to give them exclusive electronic rights in order to get into their KDP select program. This means no selling on your own website (or anywhere else) and no selling in other formats. They claim they have the Harry Potter books on that basis, but I’m not buying it.
I don’t know if there’s any way to stop the freight train, but Amazon is seriously out of control. And yet…I don’t dare not put things up there. And as soon as I have a neuron free, I’ve got to go see about getting up on B&N.
Life’s so much fun for writers these days… 😀
I know that J K Rowling sells the Harry Potter books from her own website. When I attempted to buy them from Barnes & Noble, I was redirected to her website and bought them there. At least that’s how it worked last spring.
I have a Nook, which replaced my Sony reader that died. Makes me really glad I don’t have a Kindle and am buying very few books from Amazon these days. Now and then they will work an exclusive with an author, like Laurie Garrett’s excellent book about 9/11 “I Heard The Sirens Scream”. The only way to buy it was as an Amazon ebook. Fortunately, Calibre saves the day and converts them from mobi to epub.
I’m the only one with that name, and it was specifically targeted at authors. No, they’ll accept 60 dollar a shot wiki-article pastiches as written BY me, but they won’t let me review it and call it crap and a ripoff.
Isn’t this lovely? Right now you readers are the ONLY voice we’ve got on Amazon. They hold themselves up as a publisher (with no editor, no proofer, no c/e) and then when every LEGITIMATE publisher will kill to get a writer to say a book is good, they forbid writers to write reviews, plus they’re organizing this ‘vine’ program, which has ‘approved’ reviewers that they’ll assign to review your book, either for reasons that it’s an Amazon book, or that you or your publisher *paid* them for the review, I strongly suspect.
This stinks to high heaven, and it’s one more little twist and turn of our beleaguered industry Jane’s gotten personally caught in, with the just-now issue of her gateway duology to her whole universe, new books, with no advertising budget, which utterly depend on reviews to get noticed.
This ain’t fair, folks. It really is not fair or right, and I’m personally mad as hell. But meanwhile Jane’s the one with the problem.
Review it on Amazon. But buy it from her.
Amazon likes reviews from ‘confirmed purchasers’ a lot better than from those who pick books up elsewhere. So that 40% or whatever it is that Jane gets from a direct purchase may result in a review being pulled, especially if they already are “looking” at the book because of your review. It’s quite a racket they have set up.
The Vine program is a questionable racket; it’s the equivalent of getting freebies, and being asked to say something nice about them. Trusted reviewer, my foot.
See this recent article in the New York Times:
“Giving raves to family members is no longer acceptable. Neither is writers’ reviewing other writers. But showering five stars on a book you admittedly have not read is fine.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/23/technology/amazon-book-reviews-deleted-in-a-purge-aimed-at-manipulation.html
I passed this on to a friend who writes a review/news fanzine. If anyone wants more information on Fosfax or Alexiad let me know. Joe loves to get reviews for the fanzine. (I’m not sure if Fosfax is still being created.) Alexiad is available as an e-zine.
Mmberry, could you give a web address, please? I googled on Alexiad and came up with a medieval Greek story instead. I think it’s clear that fans’ comments and links are not the opinions of our fine hostess author, so any content in fanzines or other blogs and sites shouldn’t be taken as pro or con Ms. Cherryh’s own views. (And for me to say so is perhaps overstepping the bounds of propriety.)
Here is a link to an intersting blog about all of this:
http://annerallen.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/online-book-reviews-games-people-play.html?m=1
Quite honestly, I think Amazon has lost it’s collective mind and is slipping into Evil Overlord mode.
Can I make that into an its up there? Gah.
How many times have I looked at a book, the cover art, the blurb on the back cover, the one or two sentences from multiple reviewers in the front few pages, and made my purchase decision on those factors? Those reviews? They’re from two main sources: One, from industry publications like Library Journal, Booklist, major newspapers and magazines. Two, from other noted authors who’ve read the book and give it and the author good reviews. That latter is a mutual benefit: You wash my back, I’ll wash yours. Potentially, it boots both authors in the reader’s mind, besides giving the reader the voice of an author the reader already trusts. All those things go into reasons I might purchase a book.
I can understand why a bookseller might not prefer to have the author and his/her family give glowing reviews to a book (or audio or video).
But not to allow, even encourage, other authors to review fellow authors goes against an accepted, needed advertising and marketing practice and professional courtesy that benefits the reading audience and the authors and publishing industry.
Oh, it’s great if John or Mary Sue Reader give their man (woman) on the street review of a book. That’s effectively word of mouth. They may be good advertisers. (Word of mouth advertising is wonderful, of course.) — But how do I know that John and Mary have actually purchased *and read* the book? Are they fans who like everything Author A writes, even grocery lists and the phone book? 😉 (Not that that’s bad, mind you.) Are they the kind who buy a book just so their bookshelves look good? (Aw, c’mon, read the book, please!) Or did they indeed read and form an opinion on the book? — I’m not complaining, just asking critically. Because it’s hard to tell without human interpretation of the review, whether they read the book.
I would equally like solid reviews from other authors and publishers and publications (news and mags, sites, blogs). Heck, I might not mind a review from the author him/herself, or his/her dog, cat, or family members. Hey, if the in-laws like it, it might be a good sign, y’know? — As a reader, I can tell by reading a review if it’s bogus from the author. (And there’s a difference between a good review and a bad one, even from the author of the work itself.) Aw heck, even, “Buy my new book so I can pay the kids’ tuition and make the house payment” is honest, though it doesn’t tell me why I’d like the book. 😉
(I am not trying to be a jerk in this. I’m trying to get across how I, as a reader and book purchaser, really want there to be balanced, fair reviews, including reviews by fellow authors of another author’s work. For that, I’d be willing to put up with other things.)
No, I don’t like this limit placed by Amazon. That affects potentially everyone, from the big boys and girls right on down to the newbie star ups who want to build their first-ever book (audio, video, other product) into a success to make a living. This practice favors the giants that can afford to throw money at something, and gives an unfair disadvantage to the little guys and girls…or even the well-known small business people, i.e., established authors.
If a well known author, who is essentially a small business person, cannot lend his or her name and opinion to a review of another author’s work, whether someone well known, or maybe someone just starting out, then that cuts out a large chunk of how readers learn about books and authors whose works are related and interesting to the reading audience.
Those fellow author reviews are generally win-win-win. Both authors get a boost in the minds of the reading public and fans. The publisher (or both publishers) might get a boost. That’s a solid advertising and sales reason. It’s also good courtesy and networking. Again, win-win and good common sense.
So why would Amazon, a company that is generally good at advertising and sales, do something so against good sense and the bottom line?
—–
And the reality is, any author or artist today wants to reach as many people as possible, and to do that, the author or artist needs to reach as many sales channels as possible. — Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Lulu, Smashwords, iTunes iBooks, book and genre news sources (magazines, blogs) anything and everything. It’s just good common sense. More, it’s survival.
We’re in a period where the publishing industry, all print media, are going digital and the publishing houses are breaking down. It’s much like what has happened / is happening in the record industry / music business and in TV and film. We’re entering a period more like a direct artist / patron relationship, only now, the artist wants and needs to reach a large base of patrons (customers, fans) to support him/herself…with all the pitfalls that people in audio and video have been going through.
Wow, and I thought it was tough when the hurdle was overcoming computer versus traditional hand/machine methods for publication and design.
Profound sympathies from the readers’ side of things. We’re all stuck in this together.
I’ll put the NetWalkers books at the top of my reading list, with the new duology omnibus first, and set GroundTies with priority to the new offerings.
This kind of thing makes it hard on authors and readers and publishers. We all *want* good reading out there. We all want the good stuff to be successful. For booksellers to put up roadblocks that end up favoring big companies instead of authors or readers (ahem, buyers) is not a good idea. I hope the big booksellers will realize that, before it hurts all of us and the industry that’s struggling to survive.
And yes, authors rock. Kinda partial to bookstores and libraries, small business folks, librarians, too. 🙂 (Maybe selfish, since I’m pretty much in that boat myself, and bailing and rowing as much as I can.)
Phooey. Big business. When it forgets that everything is local and personal, people one-on-one, serving the customer, then big business forgets the most basic part of the equation of commerce. You need two to tango, a buyer and a seller. (Actually, you also need a product maker, or you don’t have anything to sell. So it’s a threesome? Well, fine, so much for my carefully thought out, pithy end tag piece….)
Have you done reviews at other sites, such as GoodReads? (Though it’s kind of tricky there; there are some sub-groups on that place, I understand, who are extremely……… antagonistic towards authors reviewing authors, in the assumption that, because a bunch of them were caught doing it, it was always bad, evil, nepotistic, blah blah blah. So one might wish to be especially diffident or something.)
(Another trick, on the Amazon front, is to have the author-publisher go into the Book Detail Page from the Author Central dashboard, and enter your review as an Editorial Review. (https://authorcentral.amazon.com/gp/help?topicID=200436740 says roughly the same thing.) I *believe* I’ve heard that this is considered fine by Amazon, but you may want to check that with a support person.)
Maybe off-topic, maybe not:
Over at Shejidan, I’d posted that I expect to get Fontographer soon. It’s a font design / editing program. Xheralt then chimed in to wonder if that might make a good title for the next atevi novel. (Except it’s a registered/copyright name/mark.)
I then joked maybe Typographer might have a limited market as a book title.
However, it jogged my brain into actual thought.
Astronomer?
Philosopher?
Translator?
If any of those might work, I have no claim on ’em. Can’t. They’re plain old English. Well, from Latin and Greek, but English has never been too picky that way….
Old Topic, but worth mentioning….
The State of Indiana spent time this week discussing the need for proficiency in cursive writing in schools.
BCS, I asked Jane to forward that information to you. Easer to send the entire current issue in .pdf format.
Thanks, mmberry, that’s cool!
About cursive: I do calligraphy, but my own handwriting is quirky. I blame college note taking and then the work world for most of that. My handwriting has never been pristine, but it was more legible before. It needs practice, done at a reasoned pace.
I’ve seen either two or three US systems for cursive handwriting. There’s the older one I learned, and the newer one with basically block print capitals.
For font design, I looked, a while back, about cursive and block print teaching resources and student practice books. The practice pads used to be common school supplies at the start of every school year. I’ll either order specially or look again this fall.
Hmm, when I was very little, the Big Chief pads and the pads with the blue horse inserts were not so common, but still available. Heheh.
And yes — penmanship is still a good idea. In fact, with tablet and stylus or finger input, I’d say penmanship might increase in importance. Funny how progress works. But legible writing is always useful.
I’ve never seen worse handwriting than one of my college professors. To be fair, the Latin alphabet wasn’t his native one, but even so, yikes! Any class I had from him, I knew to rely on memory to take notes, not what was on the board. Eek. So yes, good writing is critical.
With no disparagement to either Ms. Cherryh or Ms. Francher, is there not the possibility of either collusion or improper bias? I might read something on their recommendation but I would always wonder.
certain self-published writers have shamelessly gamed the system and self-promoted.
Too many documented instances of that. I suspect that’s why Amazon cracked down. Unfortunate, and maybe an overreaction, but I can understand them deciding that they would rather not deal with the effort of weeding these things out when other users protested. And from what I’ve seen, they protested loudly.
Any person is free to read my other reviews and find out what I like. Would Jane and I work together and edit each other’s work if we didn’t respect each other’s work to the max? Would we do less than make the work as good as we can? You can know I’m a writer, and know my work, and decide whether what I write would please you, ergo whether what I recommend would please you, but you cannot say that I would lie and put my good name behind something I didn’t like as much as I say I do for any sane reason on earth. It would be ruinous to any writer to do that.
This is when you create an alias or a pen name. Its a shame that the people who are best qualified for a job are often prevented from doing it.
But make sure set up the alias on a totally different computer with a different IP address so they can’t track you that way.
This means you may have to do book reviews at a Starbucks.
Or go to the local library and use their computers.
Everything I hear is that Amazon has Google “in its sights”. No doubt they don’t “sweat the small stuff”, they’ve “bigger fish to fry”.
It’s very easy to put this at the blame of indie authors doing bad things . . . but does anyone remember when the ‘anonymous’ posts all went live with real names a few years ago? How it turned out certain name authors were posting bad reviews of fellow author’s works? I specifically remember a college professor and some nonfiction work in that case. I also had a friend who had bad reviews by someone she’d had a falling out with a few years before.
The review system is flawed. However, I have never been of the belief that because some people misuse the system that we should all be denied from writing reviews of the works we most naturally would read just because we happen to read them as well. I’d like to see the people misusing it banned and their books removed, though.
But here is the thing: I hear so often how Amazon is doing so many nice things for writers (the whole Kindle Select stuff, etc.), but that’s just not true. Select is a way for them to get books away from competitors and has nothing whatsoever to do with helping authors. They no doubt figure that once an author is in, they’ll let it ride, hoping for more of the cash payout next time. They also don’t care if authors are upset about losing legitimate reviews. They figure, overall, that THEY will not lose income because people will still be buying books.
Amazon is trying to take up the role of publisher. They want control, they want to be the only ones selling the books, and they want authors in a position where they just don’t have a choice in what they decide. All in all, I did not become an indie (self-published) author just to let Amazon take over the role of a big house publishing company.
There are no easy answers in this. It’s not simply ‘indie authors misused it’ because the misuse was too wide-spread. Amazon reacted so they don’t have to deal with it anymore, but not in a way that is going to help anyone but them in the end. Now they don’t have to go check on reports of misuse.
And the rest of us take our reviews elsewhere. Honestly, I haven’t even put my last two books up on Amazon at all yet, though I probably will. This is a tough business, out here all on my own. I have to take advantage of any opportunity I can. A shame, really, that my friends — who almost all happen to be writers — won’t be able to review my work if they like it. (And they don’t always, believe me!)
“…easy to put this at the blame of indie authors doing bad things…”–zette.
I tend to blame this one on Amazon burning the midnight oil figuring how to get money out of everything…and how to make sure, at the end, there is one bloated toad sitting under the porch light, owning *all* the bugs there are in the universe….
Oh so true! I love the bug analogy!
What about Smashwords.com or Lulu.com ? …Or Barnes & Noble (book publisher née bookseller) ? Or Apple’s iBooks through iTunes ? Just as possibilities. I’m not saying B&N or Apple are spotless either.
Yep, the reality is, most authors and artists want and need every channel they can get to put their work out there for sale to the public. And the public’s still hungry for good reads.
Strange, strange times we live in. No knowing yet what it’ll settle into, just that it’s going to be a long, rocky road before it does settle, and there are likely shakeups before then.
Amazon can’t hog all the pie, ultimately. Nor can B&N or Apple.
Also, the big boyz-n-girlz can influence ebook formats, but big companies can also miss things, and with more open formats out there, this will limit (somewhat) the big companies’ controls. When a new format version or an entirely new format or system is invented, presto, the game changes.
Meanwhile…whew….
Amazon offers authors a chance at more money if they put their books up ONLY with Amazon. It’s an attempt to get business away from Barnes & Noble, Smashwords, etc. The more the authors fall into the ‘one ring to rule them all’ hype, the less business falls to the other places. And believe me, this is happening often because both indie authors and small press companies are anxious for income. Amazon may not be the only place in the end, but they might be the only one of any significance.
The big publishers? If Amazon made it plain they would make more money by going just with them, you don’t think they’d leap? They have made it plain, after all, that they are most interested in manking money and not in the books themselves. That’s fine — that’s what a business does. Quite honestly, I’m not sure why they haven’t so far, except maybe they’re more used to big business and can see where this will lead while the smaller sellers are just anxious to do well.
I don’t want Amazon to be my publisher. I want them to be one of many distributors that I use. I think if they would just sit back for a year or so and not spring any more Evil Overlord decisions on us, they’d do better.
I’m not sure that’s good, though. LOL
Distributor, one of many, is fine. Big bullfroggy in a shrinking pond is not so fine. Sole publisher means too much control of the presses, even if that’s fiction, poetry, and non-fiction, as opposed to news and op-ed. As a reader and fan, as a potential author, I am not fond of that.
And yet I have a good bit tied up in Amazon’s ebooks, more than iBooks or B&N’S, or others. However, that’s due to convenience more than love of their burgeoning business practices.
I would prefer a better format than mobi or KF8, such as EPUB, also.
Be it noted, both Amazon and Apple have had their hands slapped last year. Maybe they’ll learn.
Given how the Kindle for PC app is wont to “forget” its connection, still not fixed versions later, I really would not want Amazon, or any seller, buying Google or Yahoo. That would be very bad juju.