I got Jane the traditional black cat for her birthday—a lovely kitteh in a snowglobe.
And I found a couple of Bleach movies on Amazon. Bleach is one of our favorites…we have stacks and stacks of it.
We are so disappointed in most American drama…very little guts on the part of the storytellers; very simplistic plotting, suspense that unravels and becomes tedious on a re-watch; just a general lack of really good re-viewable material, so that if you’ve seen it once, you’ve seen it all. And probably all its relatives.
We disdained anime for a long time—all we’d seen was figures that looked like plump baby dolls. Then we found the right one or two, and found a) it’s not all transforming robots and flying kids and b) it’s got re-viewability. There are moments you just wait for. Convolute plot, complex characters, and very nice animation.
What Western viewers have to capish is the ‘chibi’ figure that suddenly takes the place of a character: this represents a childlike behavior, and is done for humor. Puzzled us for a long time, and then we got onto it, and find the chibis a lot of fun. They make great keychains.
So we’re quite into certain anime: we’re very picky. Gotta have good-looking people. No robots. Minimum of ‘cute kids’. Gotta have a good storyline. We don’t tend to like kids as characters—but made an exception for Kyo Kara Maoh.
Most of the ones we like tend to have a mythic element: Bleach, or Saiyuki (Journey to the West).
The other thing is—don’t use the English sound track. Go for the English subtitles. Trust me. The translations are not that good on the English track. Most people who watch a lot of anime do prefer the Japanese track. And you’ll pick up a little Japanese in the process. Very serious writers and composers devote their activity to anime—and manga. If you’ve never tried it, it’s worth your time. As a music form, I’ve gotten quite fond of Japanese pop.
We also have a fondness for Chinese historical series, again, with the subtitles. Laughing in the Wind is one we own.
We
We also have all the Ghibli movies for teh same reasons and love them all. I have several Anime queued on my Netflix to stream on demand; I love the way the streaming stuff works on Netflix now, I can play it on my Big Screen in my bedroom. Although not really Anime, I love the Avatar:The Last Airbender series. We watched most of Volume 3 last night.
The Korean dramas (NOT animated) are hot stuff at the library, with wait lists sometimes in the triple digits. I wish there was a better, user-friendly, sturdier way of getting video content out to library patrons; there is no way the library system could use something like Bittorrent, the computer systems just don’t have the capacity. This would never have flown in the age of VHS or Beta, and even the DVDs have a limited life when being passed around from person to person. When one of a 6 or 8 disc set gets ruined, that pretty much ruins a whole expensive set.
I am a late bloomer with regards to anime, but I am making up for lost time.
I’ve found Haibane Renmei, Dennou Coil, and Kaiba to be very original, entertaining, though-provoking, and quite haunting. They are all very different from one-another, and very different from mainstream American and Japanese productions. They all explore novel ideas and extrapolations, exactly what I love about science fiction and fantasy literature.
I’m glad *someone* mentioned Ghost in the Shell. My anime awakening came as a double feature, GitS and Akira. There is some great SF writing/story telling in these movies. And I just have to give a second shout out to Yoko Kanno. She is a brilliant composer. Love her stuff.
A short series that was recently recommended to me by a friend (who’s taste I generally find to be quite good) is “Darker than Black.” I haven’t watched it yet but it’s on the list, now with several other titles found here.
Great topic and conversations.
Have you guys tried Avatar: The Last Airbender? The live-action movie is horrendous and complete butchery, but the original show is well-written, endearing and has great action scenes. It has incredibly strongly developed characters and great representation of Asian and Inuit cultures. It’s one of the few good “American animes,” in my opinion.
I’ve now watched an ep each of Saiyuki and Bleach.
Saiyuki puzzled me; it seemed far too easy to defeat the demons. Other things about it struck me as off or disjointed. But the characters and basic quest looked like there was more to it. I’ll likely give it another couple of episodes before saying aye or nay.
Bleach, I found more interesting, engaging characters and story, and I’ll watch more.
I agree, Yoko Kanno’s jazz experimental score for Cowboy Bebop was very, very good by itself and really added to the show.
Although I haven’t seen much of Ghost in the Shell, what I have seen was really intriguing.
Friends over at TerraFirmaScapers.com have recommended the cartoon / anime series, Avatar: The Last Airbender. What I’ve watched is geared towards kids, but it looks like it could be fun and may have some depth there, which is why it was recommended to me. (I don’t quite get why the mascot magical beastie is there, as he/she/it seems added on, but it doesn’t detract, and the story’s entertaining overall.) The show has a good mythic created story-world to it and the characters are relatable.
I haven’t rewatched dot-hack in a long time, but it was worth a rewatch.
Saiyuki is [loosely] based on the characters of the Journey to the West, the more or less national epic in which the scrolls of Buddha were carried to China. In this case, you’ll note, several of our company are demons, aiding the priest Sanzo, all of them being reincarnations of prior residents in the divine city: Hakkai and Gojyo were military leaders in their past life, and Sanzo was a court official, while Monkey, Goku, who is sometimes the demon and adult Monkey King, is a child-abomination sentenced to eternal prison and rescued by Sanzo. Kwan Yin, the god-goddess, gets involved in the Journey to the West; and I don’t think you’ll have met the sometimes-enemy sometimes-ally demon prince, who is best buddies with Gojyo’s brother, and who is being doublecrossed by his stepmother…it’s all exceedingly convolute. Some demons are cannon-fodder. Some aren’t. But they’re also not all bad on this side and good on the other side; and there are numerous twists of loyalty. At times the series goes into backstory to explain a situation, as when the War Prince shows up, etc.
Sweetbo, I would not at all disagree that Hayao Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli are treasures, and are highly respected and loved in Japan. However, Miyazaki himself has always openly cited the films of Walt Disney as a major influence. Miyazaki is also an expert on animation from the former USSR (an amazing tradition, that!), and lists folks as diverse as Ursula K. Le Guin and Jean “Moebius” Giraud, Antoine de Saint-ExupĂ©ry and Diana Wynne Jones.
The regard goes both ways; I have colleagues at both Pixar and Disney Feature Animation, and they are all enormous fans of Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli. John Lassiter of Pixar, who is in charge of all things creative at Disney, has been a major supporter of getting the Studio Ghibli films released internationally, and through Disney, I might add.
It’s easy to see just the ugly corporate machine side of Disney, particularly if you have the bad luck to be exposed to their teen TV ‘product’ and associated films. The films on which I’ve worked for the studio have certainly been a mixed affair. But Disney’s role in developing animation into a major art form is undeniable, and to this day there are some extraordinarily talented folks working there.
I don’t care for Disney animation, though I see it’s historic significance of course. I really don’t care for their stories. Way too many dead parents, princesses, and end goals of getting the guy. Miyazaki stories tend to be grounded in community and nature and the characters stories aren’t tied up in romantic wish fulfillment.
Can’t let an animation thread go by without saying something. For interesting takes on demons and supernatural critters, two animes that haven’t been mentioned yet are xxxholic and Goblin Cat (part of the Ayakashi Samurai Horror Tales series), which subsequently spawned the Mononoke anime (available online as fansubs). Very cool and unusual animation, with a very interesting and mysterious demon-slayer who appears to be a demon of sorts himself, the Medicine Seller. Also, since music was mentioned, the opening and closing themes for Goblin Cat are really good. And no discussion of Japanese rock can be allowed to pass without mention of Buck-Tick, who has been my favorite band for the past three years in spite of the fact I can only understand about a hundredth of what they’re saying. And lest ye think I’ve gone off the anime topic, they did the opening themes for Trinity Blood (Dress) and Nightwalker (Gessekai), and a closing theme for xxxholic (Kagerou). They’re all over You Tube. Check out Dress for the nineties look, or Romance for something more recent.
Thanks, CJ, for the background on Saiyuki. That makes a bit more sense.
Toward Greg’s and mrgawe’s comments, it makes perfect sense that current master animators would study and borrow techniques and styles from other masters, and would greatly admire their work. Remarkable stuff!
Oh, HERE’s a subject I know so well! đ Just attended a convention where the topic was anime for people who aren’t anime fans – and I always recommend TWELVE KINGDOMS, the typical girl thrown into another world but without romantic angst, chibis, huge eyes, etc., and the weak-willed girl ACTUALLY CHANGES AND GROWS AS A CHARACTER. Also, a bishounen that is also a kirin. Yeah. Does it for me. đ
Bleach is such a great grounded show in terms of action, character development and attractive artistic style.
I’ve liked Eden of the East (http://www.hulu.com/eden-of-the-east). Sadly, my current two favorites aren’t released here in the US: Natsume Yuujinchou (Natsume’s Book of Friends; manga is available) about a boy who can see kami and is trying to deal with how this messes with his life and the heritage of his grandmother who was similarly afflicted, and Kimi ni Todoke, about a shy girl just blossoming socially (it’s a sweet, feel good anime with lots of inherent social commentary about Japanese high school culture).
Okay, I’ll be the red-headed stepchild…..I liked Samurai X (I don’t mean the series on TV – I mean the movies). The soundtrack alone is well worth the listen.
I also liked Cowboy Bebop – I’ve got the DVD for it, best two characters are Jet and Ein, with Edward a close third.
Other than that, I’m not a big fan of anime. I can’t get a lot of it, unless I try watching it late at night on Cartoon Network. We don’t have access to an all-anime channel on my satellite provider.
Well, and if what you can get is the dubbed English versions, it loses a great deal in the translations.
Netflix. They have a HUGE selection of anime, and nearly all of it has sub and dub.
For live action demon movies, check out Onmyouji 1 and 2.
I have to agree with the points brennan and green wyvern made along with the rational and inclusive approach that CJ outlined with respect to the Moon at Wiscon issue.
It never ceases to depress me that the organisational bodies of creative arts endeavours often exhibit exactly the opposite characteristics than those which they seek to promote or engender; inclusion not exclusivity, dialogue not censure and censorship, rational and open enquiry not prejudice.
Where angels fear to tread: Itâs all in how you cast the argument. Ms. Moonâs statement was that Muslims, by virtue of being Muslim, were unfit for U.S. citizenship. Leaving aside, for a brief moment, the diversity of âMuslimâ people, replace âMuslimâ with âJewishâ or âCatholicâ. Those exclusionary POVs were quite vigorous political movements in their day. We know better, now, donât we?
Wiscon bills itself as a feminist sf convention, and has worked very hard to work through as many âismâ issues as it can, sometimes quite painfully and publicly, in an effort to include as many otherwise disenfranchised or non-mainstream sff fans as possible.
Imho, Wiscon had to withdraw its GOH invitation: not that Ms. Moon made the statement, not that the statement is misguided and possibly a not-quite-thought-though reaction to another issue, but that Ms. Moon refused to participate in a dialogue about this most basic of issues: discrimination 101, as it were. Even Harlan Ellison apologized to Connie Willis â and there is a parallel here, if one can see it. If people who are Muslim fans or writers (or their friends, or family) feel disrespected by Ms. Moonâs unretracted and undiscussed statement, how does her attendance as GOH foster that inclusivity?
And could any of this been handled better? Sure. There arenât any angels or devils here, just people trying to do their best, and sometimes hard questions about our world and how we live in it.
*Full disclosure: I have attended Wiscon twice. Ms. Moon is on my LiveJournal flist. Itâs a small world.
And because this is really an anime thread: I confess that I haven’t seen any. At all. Bad enough you all turned me on to Amelia Peabody, and Patrick O’Brien, and Briggs and Bujold, now I’ve got something else to see!
warriorofworry, you help make my point. The essence of political correctness is that a clique of self-appointed censors will feel justified in not stopping short of any extreme of social nastiness or personal insult to any individual who dares to say anything that they perceive as an affront to a hytpothetical member of a class that they have appointed themselves full power of attorney to look out for their interests and wrap them in glass wool so that they shall never be exposed to diversity of ideas. It is ludicrous that in the name of Diversity, the one thing that must never be allowed to occur is the free exchange of diverse ideas in the public marketplace. This the absolute converse of the foundation of our country and I would respectfully suggest that if one is desirous of thought control, since that is the true target and effect of the exclusion of particular points of view from the society, that there are any number of utopian garden spots on this planet where thought control is the paramount objective of the society. Have fun. Do the dictates of Diversity and kid glove treatment extend to those who are not percieved to be diverse? The hypothetical and inchoate discomfort of apparent hothouse flowers could never justify a vicious, and within our own small world highly public, attack on the someone’s professional reputation because she “deserves it”. If MS Moon had viciously attacked an individual or group in person, that would be acompletely different story. I would not have taken exception to a declaration by the convention committee that while they personally deplore Ms Moon’s comments and feel that they were both unkind and ill-advised, regarding her as an un-person would be equally unkind and ill-advised and that they could not in good consciense inflict public humiliation upon her. IMHO, the defenders of Diversity and political correctness are the most overtly intolerant group in the country. It is nothing to them to openly set out to destroy someone’s living or reputation by menas generally morre foul than fair as self-appointed judges, juries, and executioners. In fact, except in the most extreme cases of bigotry, their treatment of specific individuals is far more disrespectful and beyond the pale than that of their targets who generally are esposing ideas and policies that they find repugnant. Unfortunately, their bad example has been taken up by activists of persuasions so that no public speaker who addresses a subject with the least little bit of controversy can expect to complete their address without the crudest and rucest of interruptions. There is something Orwellian about so-called progressive groups that takes their worst and most incivil transgressions as badges of honor. Anyone for an Insult Direct with Poison Oak Cluster or Leather Lung, First Class?
Brennan, not at all. Most assuredly “MS Moon had viciously attacked an individual or group in person”, i.e. people of the Muslim faith. That IS what makes it ” a completely different story”.
The disinvitation, as I understand it, is not about what you perceive as “political correctness”, but about making a space where all con-goers including Muslim writers and fen can participate without justifying their very citizenship.
Setting up straw men (and women) for a diatribe against “political correctness” isn’t productive; it doesn’t apply to this situation, and I haven’t seen the level of vitriol you describe from the people involved.
Again, this is a difficult situation that people are attempting to handle with some finesse.
There are some good resources to read further, please don’t hesitate to email me (my user name)at yahoo for links. There are spaces for this discussion, and I do not want to hijack our gracious hostess’ thread totally here. đ
A couple more we have in our collection:
The Big O is a giant robot, or megadeux. He is controlled by Roger Smith, a ‘negotiator’ who lives in Paradigm, a domed city. About 10 years ago, for undisclosed reasons, everyone in Paradigm lost their memories. Since then, people have been trying to figure out what their history is. Every so often, something out of their past shows up, wreaks havoc, and Big O gets called on to put down the threat. Smith and Big O have a secret history as well… The artwork was, I believe, done by the same animation studio who did the Batman animated series.
Lupin III (Lupin the Third) is a con artiste par excellence. He travels the world with his 2 sidekicks, stealing from the rich and giving to… himself, although he has a soft heart. He has a girlfriend, Fujiko, who shows up every now and then who is also a thief, and the plots revolve around all of them getting in and out of scrapes. Goemon (sidekick #1) is a master swordsman whose tagline is “Once again I have cut a worthless object”, usually as he slices through something with the ease of a lightsaber. Jigen (sidekick #2) is a crack shot.
Warriorofworry;
I too am loath to wipe my dirty feet on the living room carpet of our hostess but cannot leave your reply unanswered.
You mention that what is needed is a ‘space’; there is already a âspaceâ, itâs called the real world. What you are supporting is post modern relativistic claptrap which actually entails creating an artificial âspaceâ that has different rules to those of reality; it is a constructed space that conforms to politically correct memes and you wish only to allow entry to this âspecialâ space to those who adhere to the rules. That is exclusionary, divisive, non-progressive and deeply restrictive behaviour.
And I suppose the meaningless phrases you slap together from the pomo handbook are actually trying to say something but the meaning completely evades me; what does âparticipate without justifying their very citizenshipâ mean? Are you suggesting that convention attendees be asked for their passports at the door? Are members of the Immigration Service posted at the convention entrances ready to eject people they feel are not citizens? Are you trying to imply that Ms Moon supports the notion of forced repatriation or internment for any Muslims? Your writing is meaningless tosh that lacks a sense of perspective.
I still fail to see where Moon âviciously attackedâ; she is certainly guilty of ignorance and a lack of sensitivity but no one died here. If ignorance and insensitivity about any topic were to be the deciding factors in organising conventions I dare say they would never take place.
You keep repeating that this difficult decision is being handled with some finesse but Iâm sorry, I see nothing but ham-fisted, blunt-nosed crassness of exactly the sort that would get the organising committee disinvited as Guests of Honour at their own convention. The profile of this small convention has been raised considerably for all the wrong reasons; surely something to contemplate when next one makes the mistake of failing to see the realistic proportions of an issue.
“Your writing is meaningless tosh that lacks a sense of perspective.” etc etc
If you are going to argue in that fashion you probably should step away from the computer awhile. No need to take that kind of tone here with anyone. Send her a private email like she suggested please.
Just happened upon a good listing of “overlooked” anime titles: http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2010/10/mind-meld-underrated-anime-with-videos/ . Thought you might like to investigate. đ
Nice list. Revolutionary Girl Utena was pretty popular in my circle back in college. The music sticks with you and they had great staged asides during episodes. One of most interestingly styled animes I’ve seen. Nothing else quite like it. I have friends who are still active in that fandom eight years later. I should watch it again now that I am older.
Gankutsuou was beautiful, but a little too rip-my-heart-out. It was based on The Count of Monte Cristo after all, but even more gut wrenching than that somehow.
The side topic is closed. Permanently.
Hear hear!
Thank-you!
The Online Disinhibition Effect is an evil creature.
In Milwaukee fandom, we have a weekly gathering to watch anime. Some of the most memorable titles: “Secret of Cerulean Sands”, a gaslamp-style fantasy (I dislike using the “steampunk” descriptor) that has personal flying craft with theremin antennae and airships; “KiddyGrade”, best described as a cross between the X-men and the Dirty Pair, but far deeper than either; “Hikaru No Go”, a young man masters the game of Go with the help of a ghost; “So Ra No Wo To” (Sound of the Sky), a girl joins the army to be a bugler and is posted to a small town with an all-female squad. Their assignment, 1st: maintain the fortress, 2nd: support the town folklore which holds that young maidens kept a demon under control, and 3rd: be prepared in case of an unlikely attack due to the isolation of the city
Showing up late to the anime conversation – but maybe someone will still find this interesting.
I’m sure the majority of people who watch sci-fi/fantasy anime will have seen the Cowboy Bebop series and movie already, but I just wanted to chime in with my $.02…
I first came across this show in college, and it completely blew me away – right from the killer opening sequence, I found myself completely hooked on the characters and the intensely immersive environment the creators have so expertly composed. I had enjoyed some anime before, but just funny/fluffy stuff – when I saw this, it was revelatory.
The reason I bring it up (and broke my lurker status around these parts to post my first comment) is that the way it gripped my brain was exactly the way the first piece of C.J.’s work I came across entranced and enveloped me. (Alliance Space, picked up on a whim at SFO on my way to Munich – shortest 10hr flight of my life!) As soon as I had dipped a toe into the world, and perhaps even more importantly, the manner of the story telling, I found myself craving more and more.
Not to draw too tight a comparison between C.J.’s work and Cowboy Bebop (it’s still a mainstream anime after all), but anyone who enjoys tightly written character driven narratives, set in a realistic space oriented future (i.e. Alliance-Union Universe) will almost definitely find this show compelling.
As an aside, this is the rare anime that I found to have better English voice acting than the original Japanese. The archetype of each main character is nailed perfectly by the English voice cast. Jet with his gruff baritone – tough shell, but ultimately a softie, Faye with her spot on contralto in voice and disposition (though they could have given her a bit more in the britches dept.), and of course Spike with the classic brooding silences interspersed with incisive quips mandatory for any noir-ish tortured hero.
No robots, though there is a disconcertingly intelligent Corgie.