I’d told Jane that side wall was bowing.
Turns out it wasn’t the faucets or pipe, after we cut a 4′ x 2′ hole in Jane’s closet to find out. It was the inbuilt metal soapdish, and we now have a 3’x1′ hole in the tile/wallboard above the tub rim. Sigh. The wallboard behind was soaked, the tiles were indeed bowing with the swelling of the saturated wallboard, we had mold, and it was a gruesome mess.
Now we have a garbage bag taped to the tilework until we can fix this.
And the faucets don’t come apart in the usual way and I suggested to Jane finally—we call the plumber. We have the new faucets. We have the access. We’re facing partially retiling a tub enclosure wall…never done tile before. We are ex-hausted from the lawnwork and the housework and the work-work. So I strongly urged Jane we should call the plumber; and we did—because this house has no tub water cutoff: we have to use the main cutoff, and if we have a problem, this house has only one bathroom, and that’s just too grim.
So the plumber is coming tomorrow noon-to-2, and we are getting it done. It’ll cost, but we’ll have—ahem!—accommodation AND tub/shower done by suppertime.
Having those water cutoffs is just an absolute necessity. You might want to make sure you have them for the toilets and all your sinks while they’re there, if it’s not too $$ riden. Sounds like you both had a nasty day, but much better to get that moldy wallboard found and dealt with now before it went beserk and started taking over rooms from the inside. Can happen and then you’ve got a true nightmare on your hands. But what a pain — definitely sounds like this is not fixable with chocolate and liberal applications of single malt is called for.
😆 we are fortunate it just dripped on the concrete of the unfinished side of the basement below—but we had to take out 21 tiles. But when we create the access panel for the tub hardware/taps we are going to take that sheetrock from the closet and build a new wall for the tubside, then get some plywood, paneling, or the like and make a new big access panel for the closet. And the new faucets/spigot will be nice, because one of our faucets was only held together with duct-tape.
We’re going to take a look at bathroom tile while we’re at it—but this is white builder’s-special tile, the cheapest sort, and we figure if we can patch this properly it will give us confidence to tackle the full redo on the tile next year. At 12 cents each, 21 tiles is not going to break the bank. 😉
We do have cutoffs for the other things, just not for the tub. That’s the one thing that means cut water to the whole house. We’ll ask the plumber what it would be to install cutoffs on the hot and cold lines.
Having redone two bathrooms in sequence as a major project.
You have my sympathies.
What started as a cracked fiberglass tub bottom and replacing the tub, identified a builders shortcut.
They used regular sheetrock, so off to the store for a tub.
this is turn obviously needed an enclosure.
But instead of the matched set, nothing would do but the steel
tub and the Vikrel enclosure made for another tub.
I was assured that this would not work by the lackey at the
store. After stripping away the old walls, tub, and clearing
the studs of nails, a test fit showed the new tub did not meet the studs correctly. Close but not quite.
Off to the store again for a set of 8 foot 2X6 and monster
lag bolts. This wall was open framed, with the wide face of
the studs out, because it is the major plumbing nexus for the
whole place. Lag bolting to the existing stud edgewise made
for a good solid tub mount. The plumbing was made to accept a showerhead off the tub faucet so that got added.
Cutting one hole in the enclosure and trimming the minor tabs on the bottom, had it ready. And then all of the parts
installed it was time to seal up, with Green sheet and water
proof sheetrock mud. I also pulled and repainted the vanity
and medicine cabinet. A beastly amount of work but the results no longer have gaps in the walls, exposed bare wood,
or anything that mold can get a foothold on. I also added
a grab bar for the towel hanger solidly bolted into the studs. The single throne room does present a problem making
doing your own a really bad idea.
I will not burden you with the wishes for the builder I uttered at random intervals.
OMG. Ours is an iron job sitting on stout board and some kind of iron frame. You don’t want to take a bath in a lightning storm!
OMG
what awful cheap-shot plumbing work in sensitive areas. personally my experience with plumbers and also pool builders leads me to believe that none of them can put in the simplest thing without creating a leak. my new bathroom put in 10 years ago, luckily on the ground floor, no basement, onto solid concrete, still has seepages! I lost 1000’s of litres in Spain last year because a there was a leak in my new house’s pipework to an outside tap, and because the (natural swimming pond) pool had untightened up pipework to the skimmers, this was supposed to be fixed, but it still leaks, I lost the top 4 inches consistently all summer – which was blamed on evaporation – however, it continued to disappear when the weather cooled down and into the winter, until the rainfall got serious…..
however, tiling is quite fun, not heavy work … you will find it a doddle.
Oh woe! Glad you found the leak…..plumbing can be fairly simple but a drag……professionals simply go faster…..they have what they need with them.
Tile jobs are fairly straightforward as long as a lot of cutting is not involved. Best way to learn is to take a workshop at Lowe’s or Home Depot.
@purplejulian…skimmers and pool equipment should not leak. Check your joints and make sure that teflon tape (wonderful stuff!) was used at every one. Last summer we had a long spell of hot dry weather; it took almost a month for my 10,000 gal. pool to go down to the point where I needed to fill.
Anybody out there know anything about cat dermatitis? Friendly has developed a chewing problem……off to see Dr.Mike today.
Thankfully, tilework is pretty easy – especially with those cheap 1/8″ builder tiles. Make sure you have a good surface (‘greenboard’ (ceramic) for the bathroom – moisture/mildew resistant), goop on the thinset mastic and set your tiles – spend the $3 to get the little cross shaped spacer inserts to keep your spacing consistent. After ~5 minutes go back and level the tile with a rubber mallet or the back end of a screwdriver (padded!) – length of 2×4 can come in handy for a patch job. Let the mastic cure overnight. The next day mix up the grout and liberally spread it over the entire area, then wipe down with a wet sponge. Let it dry and you are finished (don’t forget to pry the little spacers out before grouting!). If you are planning a redo later, get some tools – those little nipper things are horrible, plan on ruining 3 tiles for every one you have to use the nippers on. A straight line snap cutter is what you need for straight lines (like this http://www.amazon.com/NATTCO-PC1818-Snap-Cutter-Steel/dp/B000KKT7FO/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1272547066&sr=8-22), and you can get good dremel bits to do curves and holes much better than the nippers. If you are planning on floor tile (much thicker) get a wet saw (and really good kneepads, floor tile is murder without them!). Luck!
Thank you for the tip on the ‘greenboard.’ They may have used regular wallboard. It came out incredibly puffed up and crumbly. But rubber mallet, check! sponge, check! This one’s all straight tile, no cutting, thank goodness. Greenboard, thinset mastic, grout, and spacers. we should be golden.
‘greenboard’ is what we used to call it when I was working building commercial pools as a teenager (because it was green). The generic name is ceramic backerboard, I think that there are trade names like ‘wonderboard’ and such. You may have a bit of a problem if they used standard 1/2″ gypsum behind the tile, as the backerboard is much thinner – you will need to put some spacers between the backerboard and the studs (I would recommend rubber washers, as you can stack them to get the right thickness – glue them to the studs initially. After the backerboard is screwed in, compression will keep them stationary even if the adhesive disintegrates – don’t have to be too precise as the mastic will account for small discrepancies). Not sure about where you are, but greenboard is required by code for bathroom tile installations in many places. Also, don’t forget to wipe down the tiles about 15 minutes after grouting with a damp sponge or you will get a haze of grout over your tile surface that can be difficult to remove if it dries completely.
Thanks for the tips. Much appreciated. This house was built in 1954, and it has some quirks. I’m dead certain what’s behind the rest of the tile is ordinary sheetrock. The good news is they gappily framed-in the tub enclosure with 2x12s of now-aged fir, with studs before and behind, and the flooring is similar. So at least it’s solid in that regard. But I know what can happen if such boards get well-soaked, and I am relieved we are going to fix this problem. I think your information makes up my mind that re-tiling especially of the bath enclosure would be a really good idea.
Forget greenboard. It’s meant for use under plaster. Use cement board. And use a waterproof membrane under the tile. Grout is porous and will not prevent water getting through.
Water is sneaky and devious. Be sneaky and devious in return.
Phil Brown
What Phil said! He beat me to it. Greenboard is just a water-resistant sheetrock. What you want is “cementitous backer board,” AKA “Hardibacker” (that’s a brand name but also a common name for the type). It is ceramic sheet which must be cut with a diamond blade, but makes a wonderful place to hang tiles. It is utterly essential for a bathroom installation.
I’m having our bathroom renovated as we speak, because of a HUGE water leak. After everything was rubbished we’re now on the tag end of two weeks with industrial strength dehumidifier to get the moisture out of the wall: on Monday the plumber will finalise the plumbing, then the mason will do the new floor (it was concrete, with tiles), then new tiles.
Total of four weeks without a bath. So I sympathise.
In Sweden you need to be licensed to do “wet rooms” or no insurance coverage if there’s an accident/damage. A special waterproof membrane, installed by a professional, is minimum.
I’m glad it’s my landlady paying (neglected maintenance, on her behalf)…
philbrown is right; use Wonderboard pr equivalent product and a waterproof membrane…..some can be ready for tiling in an hour. Google ‘waterproof membranes’ or ask at Lowe’s etc. This sounds a lot more complicated than it is. Your project sounds fairly straightforward. If you do need to get into cutting tiles I would recommend hiring a water cooled cutter (That is not the correct name)….the cost of the rental will be covered by the tiles you will lose using nippers…..which I have never been able to use well. Remember that water will find any available cracks. 😉
‘Wet Saw’ is the term Smartcat is looking for. CJ, you’ll also need to apply acrylic caulk at juncture of tile and tub sill once the grout has set. Might be worth considering epoxy grout, it seals much better than plaster grout. Unlikely you’ll get a color match anyway, and you did say it is a stopgap ’til a proper fix can be arranged.
filing all this info: right now it’s a 4″ tile patch totally 21 whole tiles, but we are starting to look at what we want to do to put this bathroom right and how to do it. A total remodel of the only bathroom we’ve got is OOTQ, no way, but if we do the sink/cabinet and then the tiling, we are at no point without a bathroom. 😉 But the real job is going to be a next-year thing, we’re telling ourselves: no way we can fling ourselves from the Lawn Project to the tiling this year. 😉
For patch jobs, once you have a workable back surface, you can use a combined mastik/grout, but personally I do not like it for very long duration (more than months). I tend to distrust ‘combined function’ materials. :-/
If you are planning on replacing the faucet, I strongly recommend looking into a handheld shower attachment. It’s so much nicer to move the water to where you want it, instead of moving your body parts to where the water is. I have put them into all my bathroom remodels, and if you aren’t going for anything fancy, they are no more expensive than a fixed shower head.
And out where I live, when I was looking to redo my bathroom and switch from a fiberglass shower enclosure to full tile, I was told that the only proper way to do it was to hot mop it. That’s where they take the tar stuff that they put on roofs (or a close equivalent) and put it on every surface that is going to be tiled, and then do the mastic, tile, and grout. Is that no longer true, or is it just additional protection? I have to say it’s one reason I haven’t done that job yet, since I was quoted 6K _just_ to do the shower! However, I also live in earthquake-prone California, so that might have something to do with why they want the tar.
Oh, we’ve got one of those handheld showers. 😉
As for our current problem, we just bought a little light bucket smaller than KFC, a quart bottle like milk of the mixing solution (grout); and an even smaller container of mastic. Plus standoffs for the tile to keep them apart. Our immediate job is 21 tiles, no cutting. If we wanted to do the whole bathroom, if we stripped it down to wallboard, and put up that concrete-wallboard-stuff previous commenters have commented on—we could tile most of the room, walls, floor, and all, maybe for 700.00; it’s a small bath, and we might get out for under 500. No tile on the ceiling. But with these waterproof materials there’d be no reason one couldn’t waterproof the whole shebang with a tube of cement to seal the joints and then just go section by section. Of course, there’s code. Which in Oklahoma is just what you have to go by if you hire somebody; a building permit is anything that shows from outside the house…and in other places is a lot stricter.
On the other hand, we just ended up paying a plumber to modernize a broken 1954 bathroom faucet, replacing it with a modern faucet we owned, because it needed a half inch adaptation for the faucet and a degree of strength we didn’t have, and it cost us over 300. Any time you pay to have anything done, I swear, you can multiply by two and tack two zeroes over doing the job yourself. Our neighbor paid 3000.00 to have his garage painted; we painted ours by buying a 98.00 refurb sprayer and spending about 150.00 worth of paint. It took his painter 3 days with a paint brush. It took the two of us 4 hours.
Assuming that you will reference this next year when you do the big bath remodel, my 2¢ on tiling (for then, not for now). Seriously consider using epoxy grout. It is completely water proof & mildew proof, and never needs to be sealed. You have to be very diligent about wiping off the excess with clean (clean, CLEAN!) sponges because if you get haze with epoxy nothing will remove it. The sponges are cheap, so when we cleaned our epoxy grout we had many, and only wiped once on each side of the sponge before switching to a new clean sponge. I think we used 4 buckets for rinse water, and started with them all 1/3 full, with 3-4 sponges each. Then all one person did was refill buckets & clean sponges, while the other person wiped (once each side). It sounds like overkill, but no haze, and a beautifully grouted bathroom that still has clean, white, waterproof grout 10 years later.
Caulk. You should caulk any seam or joint where 2 different materials meet (tub meets tile, tile meets wall or wood), or where 2 different planes intersect (corners, where tub meets floor,etc.). Different materials will expand & contract differently; different planes expand & contract separately. Grout in these intersections will crack.
If you have a window in your bathroom, (we have one above the tub, and the wooden window frame has always been a big issue with the shower over tub) take this opportunity to replace with a glass block window with no frame. Make the window & shower area all sleek, no need for a curtain, and you can still open for fresh air in good weather.
Finally, add a grab bar or 2, for those times when you’ve crippled yourself on the ice and you could use a hand climbing in and out of the tub.
Welcome in!
Much appreciated—we will remember about the sponges. We do believe in caulk. We have a grab bar from the previous owner, and are not sure about replacing it in the total re-tile, but it can be useful as one gets older. That may stay.
We did kibosh the soap dish which was our current problem. A lot of modern tubs don’t have one, and they’re a leak looking for a place to happen. Our was a metal job with two screws, one corroded, and being thin metal, it had ample opportunity to expand differently than the tile to which it was mated and soak the plain old undefended gypsum wallboard which backed it. That situation is no longer with us. 😉
@philosopher77 : waterproofing with tar/asphalt is very old fashioned and deemed not enough nowadays. It was one of the things not OK with the bath we’re now renovating…
My secret wish is I could install an atevi style bath while we’re at it but a) the room is too small and b) our downstairs neighbour would be very upset if we really did sink the tub because he would have to crawl into HIS bathtub 😉
As to costs – some things you can do yourself… other things can be worth the cost to have a pro do it, granted you can afford it, if nothing else because it will stay in one piece in a foreseeable future 😉 I have seen too much bad DIY, not to mention the consequences… Present company excepted, of course.
bad diy, yep, we’ve seen it! That’s why we just paid 300 plus for a half inch of pipe. It’s not the half inch of pipe; it’s the equipment to thread it and the expertise to know you need it. We could have cobbled something together, but the result wouldn’t have been good. Fire, explosion, or flood potential are three things we consider a “Call the pros” situation if we have any doubt of our ability to handle it. 😉
One of the hardest things to do in home DIY home improvement is to call in the pros when the job is over your head. Don’t let ego get in the way. I’ve been in the construction game all my life-and back to my great grandfather-and even though I can do plumbing I call in the pros if the job is bigger than faucet replacement. And I solder with the best of them. There are just too many tricks and turns.
Literally.
And epoxy grout is great but for God’s sake, get it off before it setts.
Phil Brown
Speaking of Plumbing Gone Bad, our Dept. of Water Supply just shut off the water to the library — there’s a water main break in the area. They expect to be down for at least the next 2 hours, maybe longer 🙁
I can vouch for the fact that the main difference between professional plumbers and amateurs is the number of specialized tools the pros have. After that, if you have a reasonable amount of skill and care, the amateur will usually do a better job for cheaper than the pro. I repaired a toilet when the ‘professional’ failed to properly install the wax seal in the base. When I replaced the kitchen sink faucet, I replaced one shut-off valve, and my ‘pro’ friend did the other because he had a tool that gave him more leverage than I could apply. My valve doesn’t leak; his does.
😆
My spouse insists on doing the plumbing himself. In fact, he totally rebuilds whatever he touches because the previous person didn’t do it “right”. Luckily we have 2 indoor accommodations because it took at least 3 days to get one of them the way he wanted. He also has plumbing tools. A friend’s father passed away an he bought a lot of his tools.