New Foreigner Book!


a few hardcovers and pbs available from Closed Circle, signed. Latest: Moonlover and the Fountain of Blood, Jane Fancher short story. Chernevog, part 2 of the Rusalka trilogy co-written by CJ and Jane; and Orion's Children, a tetralogy from Lynn.


Link I Link II

Foreigner Series: Spoiler Alerts: Page 2

I’m giving the page a second section because page 1 was starting to behave oddly.

As always, wait at least 30 days from issue of the book before starting to discuss. And give our overseas friends some extra leeway: the distribution system doesn’t reach everywhere as fast!

1,119 comments to Foreigner Series: Spoiler Alerts: Page 2

  • chondrite

    One regrets to note that it appears the audio-movie in progress has been abandoned. The link to the website is defunct, with no forwarding. A pity.

    • Raesean

      Darn! I was thinking of that proposed audio recording yesterday and hoping it was well under way. This past weekend I was at the Boston Arisia sci-fi convention and went to a panel on doing recordings (most informatively given by a voice actor) and later it made me wonder where things were at with the Foreigner recording project.

  • Rigeldeneb

    Interesting indeed! I will be re-reading scenes with scenario_dave’s interpretation of the atevi view of how the position of paidhi works in mind. It certainly makes Bren’s role in the overthrow of the shadow Guild even more politically fraught and convoluted, meaning even more fascinating as story.

    • scenario_dave

      The shadow guild is what gave me the idea. Bren had the aji’s ring and legally was the aji for a short time because he was officially the paidhi speaking for the aji. Having the ring in his hand made it absolutely clear that the aji is appointing him to speak and give orders in his name if necessary.

      When he was a court functionary who was seen in the background once in a while but almost never heard, most atevi didn’t think about him very much, except when he vetoed something. I think the run of the mill atevi thought of him as an atevi paidhi once he started to speak directly to the people. When he was touring and giving speeches in the name of the aji, he was officially the aji during that speech. They cheered him like they would the aji because he triggered their sense of manchi to the aji. This was useful to the aji because he can’t be everywhere at once.

      He has always acted as an atevi paidhi when dealing with the ship. The first time he walked on the ship he said that he is there to make an agreement. He can negotiate and sign in the aji’s name. That is much more in line with how the atevi’s think about the position of paidhi then how the humans think of the position.

      He was the perfect choice for paidhi. He had no clan affiliation and he is fiercely loyal to the aji. He also understands how the aji thinks well enough to make decisions that the aji can work with while being acceptable to other involved parties. Being human, there was no risk of him using the position to overthrow the aji.

      When became an official landed lord it didn’t really change anything. Bren always made it a point when he was speaking for the aji and when he was speaking for himself. Giving him the land makes so much sense in other ways. If he is officially a kind of alternate aji under some circumstances, he should have his own land. It wouldn’t feel right for a atevi paidhi not to be a landed lord.

      The position of the land was perfect. Because of his location he can deal with the gan and the marid informally as a neighbor. He can open the door for the dowager to interact with people she would have difficulty interacting with otherwise. When he talked it was in a dual role, informally as a neighbor and as the official voice of the aji. He had both the advantage of both small and large.

      • nekokami

        I think you’ve really stated it well. Machigi is the one who officially invokes the older paidhi tradition, but Bren has been falling into that pattern with atevi all along, possibly sometimes without even realizing it, as he tries to figure out what atevi expect of him. And it really does start with Tabini sending Bren to Illisidi at Malguri in the first book. Bren is in Illisidi’s hands to represent the position Tabini has been taking– Tabini sends Bren as his best evidence for why he (Tabini) isn’t completely crazy to be working with the humans so closely, despite the surprise of the return of the human ship.

        This interpretation of the scene in Inheritor with Tatiseigi clarifies things, too. Bren, always the diplomat, consciously tries to offer Tatiseigi a way to turn the event around to his benefit, but I think Bren isn’t aware at that point of how much Tabini and Illisidi (and even Tatiseigi, who demanded the presence of the human paidhiin) were relying on him to do just that.

        I wonder if the Messengers were originally the Guild of the paidhiin? Bren only seems to know of paidhiin being appointed ad hoc, but the preface to Foreigner is partially from the point of view of a self-described “Speaker” for an aiji, who wonders if it would have been better to send an Assassin instead. I know the Assassin’s Guild does mediate disputes, in a way, by asking for evidence and delaying process in some cases, but it would seem that the role of paidhiin is just as core to Atevi social structure, but may have been somewhat neglected since the arrival of the humans.

        A summary of this discussion would be welcomed on the wiki….

    • Xheralt

      I am trying to imagine the machimi that will be written about this, and thinking about what the circumstances a decade or three down the line might be where said machimi would be performed….

      • Xheralt

        Assuming that any sort of accurate transcripts are ever released by the Guild. Still, “This ring does not wait in hallways!” ought to thrill an atevi audience as much as it did the humans….

        • nekokami

          One completely agrees!

        • scenario_dave

          I love the scene but I doubt the guild would ever release transcripts. It would have to be in a memoir written by Bren or someone else who was there. They’d have to delete anything that would give a detailed picture of the floor plan. But the guild official position would probably be no comment.

  • Neco-ji

    How many planets are in the atevi solar system? I have noted reference to at least four planets (rocky, I assume, one including the atevi planet of course). Do they also have gas giants? Or just a big disc of debris that the four little planets pass through?

    Also: how many moons does the atevi planet have? I’ve seen references that suggest there is one (the early intro in Foreigner, where Manadgi is musing to himself about the moon people), but later on Bren uses a plural reference when describing his poisoning incident, about burning tides in his blood that had nothing to do with this world’s moons (or something like that).

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