New Foreigner Book!


a few hardcovers and pbs available from Closed Circle, signed. Latest: Moonlover and the Fountain of Blood, Jane Fancher short story. Chernevog, part 2 of the Rusalka trilogy co-written by CJ and Jane; and Orion's Children, a tetralogy from Lynn.

We have decided to live….

It was up for a vote on Christmas night.
I usually drink box Chardonnay—Chard isn’t the fussiest of white wines, and Jane doesn’t always drink it, and bottled wine is spendy; you have to have a pricey re-corking device to keep it well, the little vacuum sealer you can get at the winery for under 10.00 is ok, but by the time the bottle is a day old, *most* Chards I’m willing to spring for on a regular basis are about down to the quality of the best box, and with only me drinking it (Jane likes the Captain or single malt) you can end up with the tag-end of a bottle which prompts you to go-ahead-have-another to finish it. So really good box works well. Lower quality but not that much.
Unless you get a bad box.
First time it happened, it was a little bubbly and weird, and the next day was the hangover from hell.
This time—brand new box—and it tasted just a little funny, but I thought, well, too much powdered sugar beforehand (Russian Tea Cakes)—
Bad mistake.
3 hours later I thought I was sick. Ten minutes after that, I knew I was. Shall we say, past a certain point, about 4 in the morning, I finally had to rouse Jane out and ask for help.
I was in bed all the next day except for maybe 10 minute stretches, and all I could keep down was chai tea and a little mac and cheese. Second day, at least I was on my feet again. But I still couldn’t eat anything but mac and cheese.
I think I’m working my way toward a more varied menu.
I lost my glasses…beyond the usual places to search. I have an appointment today to get replacements. I’ve also reached a point I have to admit I need regular glasses and have to give up on the contacts for now. The continuing bout with iritis (inflamation of the iris) is more serious than usual eye redness, and it improves when I don’t wear the contacts. So I think I either have to go with daily wear contacts—or none; and I want to let my eyes get over this before I even contemplate wearing contacts again.
So….off to the optometrist I go.
On the other hand, I had a marvelous Christmas—all my gifts to Jane worked, even the funny legwarmers; and she will get the little doll she wanted, part from me, part from her sis; and I got (from sis-Lynn) a perfectly wonderful ceramic skillet, one of those non-stick things that has a green coating, which you treat just like an iron skillet: don’t wash it, really, just wipe it out really, really well. And…*and*…my aging telly which is in my workspace is about 12 years old, and losing a lot of its colors: discovered that the reason I never got into Firefly when it was first on is that I thought the screen was black during a lot of the action. Well, there are actually images there, and so much more to see: Jane got me a small flatscreen and a wall mount, so I can *see* it from where I work, and it has a beautiful picture. I love How the Universe Works, and I had no idea how much detail there is in the pictures, and I don’t even have HD telly: mine is digital. I’m so very happy with it.
So I am fine, now, I will have glasses by next week, and I’m really enjoying everything, the snowflakes and the skillet and the telly and the beautiful beadwork Lynn did, and the pond heater my brother sent, plus our copy of Brave, which we absolutely loved!
We have one more ’round’ of gifts, —actually we always save one gift for New Year’s Eve; just to keep the fun going, and Jane is threatening me with peanut butter and jelly cookies.
Then we are giving each other a membership at the Y and working off all we gained.

50 comments to We have decided to live….

  • paul

    Excellent news, we all agree!

    Next week, eh? You’ll stumble on your glasses where they aren’t supposed to be day after tomorrow!

    I help a buddy make wine (my Chemistry degree helps now and then). We made some once that would give me a slight fever every time I drank it. But then this is homemade, garage wine, not commercial stuff. I quite agree, for everyday drinking box wines are “good enough”. Air doesn’t get in, though I’m not quite sure of the plasticizer in the bag. Mine’s the Burgundy.

    So glad you’re OK now. 🙂

  • Glad you’ve made it. Chai tea and mac and cheese? Well, whatever works. I’d think those should be semi-neutral. (I like Constant Comment or another Orange Spice sort of tea, but I found I like Chai Tea too.)

    Ooh, you’re discovering Firefly! Hurray! Much to love in the series and movie. Many, many quotable moments.

    I hope your food will not be problematic further.

    Also, the Doctor Who Christmas special was terrific.

    * If you and Jane and Lynn have not seen ParaNorman, be sure and give it a whirl. Very fine movie.

    • sweetbo

      Just wanted to pop in to say that all those Christmas Specials from the UK really make my adult Christmas a little more special. I was a good girl this year and got my teevees. ^__^

      • CJ

        Hi, sweetbo! Good to hear from you!

        • sweetbo

          I been busy doing some drastic reinventing lately. Quit my job, moved from Chicago to Austin, and now am looking for work. My online routine has been disrupted too. I always stop by now and then though. The twitter notifications are handy.

          • Hey, sweetbo, good to see you around again. There are CJ/Jane/Lynn fans in Dallas and Houston, and up in the Panhandle, and probably in Austin too. Welcome to Texas! I hope you like Austin, even with all that burnt orange. 😉 😆 Best Wishes. Houston native, here.

  • Carole

    Hi, newbie here (although I’ve been a fan of your novels for over 30 years). Glad you’re feeling better. Can you not get hold of those half bottles of wine that only hold about 2 glasses? Or is that wine only cheapo stuff?

    Also, could I ask you about the use of the word ‘telly’? I’ve noticed an increased use of what I thought were British words in American tv shows and films, particularly swear words. Is this cultural cross-over, or just greater truthfulness to life on film? (Your trade being in words, I thought you might have noticed this change.)

    • WOL

      You can get away with British swear words on American TV a lot easier than you can get away with American swear words. . .

    • Hey Carole. Welcome in!

      My opinion on British words like “telly, prolly” or other international words getting into American video, is it’s merger due to increased contact. I hear online from Aussie friends that the word “y’all” is even gaining some ground over there. It’s gaining throughout the US too. So there is some cross-fertilization. Meanwhile, there are other words that still would be foreign to another side.

      It should be interesting to see if the US/UK spelling divide tumbles. I see a lot of mixing going on in unedited files. I suspect it’ll be thoroughly mixed before we all settle on anything. At least it will get proofers and editors paid, while driving teachers, students, and writers bonkers.

      • Carole

        I don’t think the spelling divide will tumble, but the pronunciation divide is. The British pronunciations of ‘privacy’ and ‘schedule’ have almost completely been superceded by the American.

        • CJ

          I read almost exclusively British books as a child, and learned theatre instead of theater—for which I was rigidly corrected by my teachers, so for years I spelled it deliberately the other way just to be contrary. I still have to stop and think about plow and plough, because the British word is usually shorter and that one is longer. I don’t know where I picked up telly, but British English is good at finding nice short words for clunky long ones, and such words are quick to fall into fashion. We used to have baby buggies. Now pram is quite as well understood as stroller. Bloody has fallen into fashion, but during the early days of usage (it’s very mild in American English) youngsters were sent to the office for it. Effin’ has made its way in as a euphemism. Swear words proliferate like crazy. And in my own writing I figure the fusion will go on—two nations divided, as I think it was Bernard Shaw who said, by a common language.

          On the other hand, a visit to England with two American highschoolers produced some laughs: a road sign as ‘severe dip’ proposed a cartoon of a propeller-beanie wearing goofball; and there were some ‘down the tubes’ jokes about the beautiful London Transit System. What we most remarked were the ‘polite’ signs, like Kindly keep off the grass. In American it’s Keep off Grass, which could be an exhortation to avoid pot.

          The number of little words with multiple meanings means our language is a minefield for non-native speakers.

          • WOL

            I think it started with the World Wars, and the American soldiers being stationed in Britain, then a lot more British slang came over with the “British invasion” musical groups like the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Bowie, Clapton, etc. And then came Monty Python. British movies are shown in America. Another factor is rapid advances in communication, and the tendency of news agencies to take anybody’s feed, regardless of whose it is. British correspondents report on American news channels, and vice versa. Cable channels feature British period pieces and dramatizations of Brit Lit (Jane Austin, Bronte, Trollope’s Palliser novels, Poldark, Agatha Christie, etc.) A&E and BBC America have British cop shows, detective shows, and secret agent shows (James Bond and The Avengers), SciFi like Dr. Who. And then there’s Harry Potter. I hear kids using Brit slang they pick up from Potter movies — “Brilliant” and “chuffed” and “snog” to name a few. And, of course, the internet. We read Brit blogs, and Brits read ours (I’ve ended up putting temperatures in both F and C, measurements in both metric and nonmetric units, and do some translating on my blog, as I have British readers — range/cooker, windshield/windscreen, (car)trunk/boot, (car)hood/bonnet, etc.– (I also have some English-second-language readers, so I tend to embed links to definitions for things like slang, idioms and figures of speech.)

          • WOL

            I know Oscar Wilde remarked about England and America being separated by the same language but, knowing Oscar, I doubt he said it first.

          • Carole

            The biggest change in American television shows seems to have taken place in the last 3-5 years. I would guess that this is greater exposure to British English via the internet. In the 1980s and 1990s, anything British-related (Daphne Moon in Frasier, Emily’s family in Friends (which totally missed the mark)) seemed caricatures, and it was always a bit of a shock to hear anything British (eg The Queen) mentioned. Now you often hear ‘English’ sounding words such as bottom, pudding and toilet, which in the past would have been butt, dessert or pie, and can or john. Of course societies are far more multi-cultural now, but there does seem to be a greater assimilation of British English into American lately than vice versa.

          • paul

            I don’t have any preference between “gray” and “grey”, and have used both.

            Shag, ISTR, is also a (variety of?) cormorant.

        • dhawktx

          Carole – when you’re in the Carolinas ‘Shag’ is a beach music dance style!

      • brennan

        There’s also a lot of fusion in both directions mediated by Canadians (eh?) or Orsrtyllyuns that help to spice up the stew.
        I have to agree with Carole that there seems to be some very casual use here of British slang that I take to be particularly foul from their contexts I’ve encountered in British stories.

  • You’re watching Firefly? Cool! It’s very much your kind of SF, in a way—very character driven, with a plausible back-story, universe, & economy.

    Just make sure you watch the episodes in the correct order. Not the order in which they were aired, and not the order on the DVDs either; the story-line in the last few episodes gets muddled unless you get the order right. See this post of mine on SF.SE explaining the correct order.

    • CJ

      I like it—a really do. Thanks for the heads-up!

    • You’ll also notice the language: Like your ship-speak and Belter slang, the Firefly ’verse has its own distinctive slang. Nathan Fillion, who plays Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, was probably the most at home with this, altering word-choice and eliding prepositions as if he were raised speaking that way.

      I’d also suggest reading the three-book comic series named Serenity: Those Left Behind between watching the last Firefly episode and watching the movie Serenity (not to be confused with the pilot episode of the same name). It isn’t strictly necessary, but it explains why certain characters are not on the ship when the movie begins.

      The comic series Serenity: Better Days takes place in “comic book time”, at some unspecified point between The Message and Those Left Behind. If you can’t get hold of the comics or the omnibus at a reasonable price, feel free to ignore the story for the nonce.

      The comics Serenity: The Shepherd’s Tale and Serenity: Float Out contain major spoilers for the events in the movie Serenity; read them only after having watched it.

      • What the gentleman with the coat of a brownish color said.

        The comics are available both in print and in digital comics versions, from Dark Horse Comics, their site, and their apps for iOS and Android. Or from your friendly neighborhood book store or comics / manga shop.

        Nods about the language. It’s a blend of 19th Century pioneer Western, Joss Whedon’s own spin on dialogue, and other things. With a liberal sprinkling of Mandarin Chineses and a touch of Cantonese Chinese for that certain zesty something…particularly if one urgently needs to cuss eloquently. Joss’s view that these far-future (2500’s) people would speak a mix of English, Chinese, and other languages, that cultures would all be thrown together but would still survive, makes sense. (Though to be fair, I’d expect a few other languages to be as common as the two primary ones.) Oh, and it seems “gorram” was actually said in the 19th Century. Joss borrowed it. Word is, he was inspired by a book titled, The Killer Angels about the Civil War, and while stuck in a hotel for some days, thought of combining that with Han Solo. 😉 (That’s the short, strictly joking version.)

  • pence

    What is the brand of box wine? As I also use it as my vin de maison …
    I usually buy Bota box.

  • Dragonrider Gal

    Dang. Sorry you had such a rough patch! Lance, my sweetie, had a similar run in with a brand new jar of bad mayonnaise. I took one bite after putting it on a sandwich, and spit it out. He said he’d eat it if I put in his lunch. I asked him if he was sure, that maybe we should throw it out, but he said no. Anyway, 3 days of pain and sickness later, he finally started feeling better. So I know how that kind of thing can take you down. Lance is as healthy as a horse usually.

    I’m still rooting for the rue-fennel eye wash route, but if you’re satisfied with the results the medical industry ‘fix’ has provided, who am I to tell you differently, eh? I am just glad my eyes are free and clear of any such problems, after that 6 month period where it was hell on earth. I wouldn’t in the least be surprised if the meds are part of the reason your eye remains so irritated. You may be having an allergic reaction to them. I know the stuff I used was really toxic over time.

    And Firefly… How incredibly sad it only lasted part of one season! It was GREAT!! I love Nathan Fillion and as noted before, yes indeed, MANY quotable moments!

  • CJ

    Well, back from the optometrist, and glasses are ordered. Because of family history, they go over me with a fine-toothed comb—especially for macular degeneration and glaucoma, etc. The predominant prescription from all docs, besides the meds (essentially the same) was —don’t wear the contacts. The same, except the dose of dilation stuff from the Eye Clinic, was basically belladonna, I suspect…which paralyzes the iris to keep the iritis from getting more irritated, a little basic herbal preparation, right? Right now my eyes are as dilated as Shu’s with a mouse in prospect, but the really great news is that, after all this, my prescription has reverted a year or so back to a modest 1.25 instead of 2.50. That’s what eye swelling will do for you. My distance vision is back to good-to-great, I could nearly read the 20/20 line on some tests, and my eyes have become far less habitually red and teary, as in—not. So—no contacts for a while, but no NEED for them for far vision, and a lighter prescription for the reading glasses. I have an older pair (I never throw them out until I’m really sure) that is about a 1.25, with astigmatic correction, and I’m going to survive quite handily with those in the interim…a week to ten days to get my glasses. And I think given my recent track record—I’m likely to get the insurance on them.

    I’m real happy with the overall result. A rollback of a prescription lens is good news. They always lecture me about how I have cataract and they’re always ‘watching it’, but it never does anything. The fact that an Army doc drafted to take care of a 7 year old with a badly broken arm AND a bad case of pinkeye, plus an anaesthesiologist likewise drafted off the golf course at Fort Sill, neither one being my docs, managed to splash liquid ether into my left eye and scar the cornea rather significantly does not make me surprised when the optometrists for the last thirty years have been saying ‘cataract’. If it really develops into a problem, I’ll deal with it, but I’m not sweating it.

    Color me happy. The swift decline in my vision had me a wee bit worried. Finding out I’m reverting to what was a stable prescription for ten years or so is kind of an unexpected youthening: not a bad Christmas present.

    And…to go with my nice new telly that has all the colors, Jane happened on a great find at Wallyworld, while waiting for me: a 50.00 blu-ray player that was ordered at 110.00 but never picked up by the person who ordered it. It’s a simple, wee thing, but oh, it makes nice pictures.

    Good luck all around today. And the new glasses look good.

    • chondrite

      Hah-HA! It’s about time something went medically right! Just don’t overexert those eyes watching all the Blu-Rays on your new TV and player.

      Have you tried letting ‘da boyz’ chase around the dot from a laser pointer? Most cats I know will go ape for the little glowing ‘bug’. Run it up under a couch, turn it off, and let the hilarity ensue.

      • CJ

        Shu is too darned bright to chase it for long—he calculates. Even as a tiny kitten, automated toys didn’t do it for him: he demanded toys powered by a thinking brain; and then even so he’ll pick an ambush spot and wait. The ONLY thing that gets him going is mouse-on-a-wire. But Sei, the most uncritical cat that ever was kittened, doesn’t care—he’ll chase that red dot for the sheer joy of chasing a red dot. 😉 If you’ve ever watched Pride and Prejudice (the famous wet shirt version) and chance to recall the look and manner of the very sweet but naive Mr. Bingly, you have Sei’s personality in a nutshell, while Shu is a perfect Mr. Darcy.

    • Dragonrider Gal

      I’m very glad your eyes are settling down, CJ! Having liquid ether splashed in your eye would definitely cause problems! And I’m guessing you’re right–the ‘cloudiness’ they keep seeing could just be scarring from that.

      I had a scare with a possible cataract thing too. I was using DMSO for a while, and I was noticing a growing cloudiness in the cornea of my right eye especially—a lot like a cataract—which was not a good thing. I was able to stop using the DMSO (it really is very bad for the eyes, besides the cloudiness thing, it makes the tissue very flimsy) and luckily I had learned EFT by that time, and I was able to successfully tap the cloudiness away any time it started up. Since I’m not using the DMSO anymore, it hasn’t been a problem.

      And I suppose I could tap my vision into a better level, but then I’d have to go get new glasses and contacts and so on, so I’ll just leave well enough alone. My vision, while quite bad, corrects to nearly 20/20 with contacts and to 20/20 with glasses, so I am content.

      Anyway, I’m glad your vision returned to it’s earlier prescription! That’s such a relief, I bet! Bella donna though, isn’t a herb I would mess with! I’d leave that to someone who’s had training dealing with ‘deadly poison’-type things (as a lot of pharmaceuticals are). *lol*

      Have fun with your new blu-ray player and TV! So much better when the eyes aren’t unhappy, I KNOW! 🙂

  • TabCat2

    Oh, this is the greatest news. A good omen for 2013!

  • I’m so glad for you. Poor health is a drag, especially at this time of year when we’re supposed to be happy and jolly. My Christmas-and birthday on New Year’s Eve-has been very low key. While I’ve had a set back I firmly believe things will get better.
    Phil Brown

  • bakayaro onna

    Glad you’re feeling better, CJ!

    I finally had to give up on contacts due to too much computer work in the dry office at work plus constant sinus meds.

    Such luck with the blu-ray player! We haven’t moved in that direction yet, partly because we still have three working VCRs doing just fine. Eventually we will buy a PS3 to be the blu-ray and a stand-alone DVR.

  • WOL

    So glad you’re on the mend. I was concerned. Glad it’s not something more serious. Speaking of chai, what brand do you use? Have you tried Lipton Spiced Cinnamon Chai? (Yeah, I know, “Lipton!?!” — but it’s actually quite good) cut about 70/30 with apple juice (warmed in the microwave before adding) is heavenly. Also Tazo’s chai (,default,pd.html?start=2&cgid=chai&prefn1=teaForm&prefv1=filter-bag&navid=search) with a large dollup of almond milk is luscious.
    Viewing stuff is so much nicer when you have a telly that actually has a good, sharp picture.

  • WOL

    Oh, and I always know where my glasses are. They’re either on my face or in the case on my dresser — kinda an in joke, innit? a WOL with glasses. . .

    • paul

      It’s often a cartoon funnies joke of an elderly person perching their glasses on top of their head, and then wondering where they are, because they can’t be seen on any of the surfaces around. When I was younger I swore I’d never do that. Yeah, right! 😉

      • pholy

        I got my glasses in 7th or 8th grade. Shortly after I went downtown to the main library to collect books for a report. At some point I propped my glasses above my forehead and continued working away. Some time later I noticed distant things were fuzzy and went all over the library quietly searching for my glasses. I don’t recall how long I spent looking, but when I finally found them – up on my head – I swore I would never do that again, and I haven’t. I have misplaced them other places, and they are darned hard to find, being half blind, but never again up on my head.

    • I’m a bit OCD about where my glasses are. I started wearing then at age 8-I’m 65 now-and it was drummed into my not to loose them. My sunglasses have a special place by the door because if the sun’s out at all I have to wear them. I have a tear in the iris of one eye. Likewise they have a place in the car and I get a bit famished if they wander.
      Phil Brown

  • Onna: It was a choice between an all new cable hookup and a BluRay because one or the other had to be an HDMI connection. The new flatscreen had only one component input and that has to be dedicated to the Tivo/cable connection. DVD players only go up to component out. Ah, well. The joys of new tech! 😀 We’ll get her an HD cable connection one of these days, but right now, it’s a gorgeous picture as is. A lovely “little” vizio from Costco. I spent about an hour in Costco going from one to the next trying to convince myself that this relatively inexpensive machine WASN’T the best picture in the under 35″ range. (Anything larger would be nuts in the spot she’s got for it.) It’s only 720dpi…but the picture is as clear or better than the small 1080 machines. I was quite amazed. Not only that, it came with internet streaming built in, so she can watch stuff from netflix.

    I’ve been trying to get her to upgrade her office TV for years. She multitasks much better than I (I can’t write with the TV on…esp science shows with pictures of stars…) and always works with it on. She’s insisted this ratty TV she picked up somewhere was good enough, but once Eushu entered the picture, I had the perfect excuse to upgrade her in spite of herself. He would NOT stay off her other TV. He’s very persistent and considers water pistols a game. This one, mounted on the wall, makes it (hopefully) impossible for him to really cause problems.

    So…she gets to watch her shows to a whole new depth and I get to work without “JANE! COME GET YOUR CAT!” Interruptions! 😀 😀 😀 Win/win!

  • Glad you’re feeling better! Re: wine, my cousin is allergic and gets sick, but nothing like that. Wow!!!! I like Famega, which is from Portugal and is about $7 a bottle. It also comes in the most beautiful pale blue bottle.

    I gave up my contacts years ago and I’ve never regretted it. Well, unless I’m hunting for my glasses, which happens fairly regularly. Every new pair I swear I’m going to get red ones so I can find them and noooooo, I always end up with a black pair.

    Love that you write with the TV on.

    Take care! Have a great new year.


  • Hawke

    So very glad to hear you are feeling better! One hopes the eyes will settle for good soon. I sympathize with you.

    Many hugs and felicitations for the new year as well. Tonight I get to participate in a strange ritual, where we will festoon a spent Yule tree with garlands of fireworks…and set them off.

    I didn’t make this up, my friend did; but it’s always interesting and fun, and much much better for me than going to a party involving liquor and people I don’t know…

  • ready4more

    It’s snowing in SE Arizona. At 3:00 am the streets were quiet and white and my whole yard was lit with that unearthly light you find reflected back when snow is really coming down. My dog wanted to go out and see what it all was since this is his first real snowfall. About 45 seconds later he had had enough and said “Let me in.”

    It is definitely oatmeal weather, and soon I’ll be settling down with an astrophysics text for some “light” reading.
    @bcs – not a word! I occasionally come out with a bon mot, and this is MY chance to work it. I hope everyone will be having a great NEW Year’s.

    Cheers and Best Wishes for a great year to come!

    • paul

      You mention the light. We have all noticed on a snowy day, the bright white snow agaimst the grey, cloudy sky.

      But how can that be? How can the snow be brigher than the sky that is illumnating it? It’s an interesting illusion. 🙂

  • chondrite

    Tonight we will go upcountry to a friend’s house, consume way too many yummy things and a fair bit of alcohol (the 2012 batch of cyser has just been decanted, whee!), then watch fireworks and set off a few ourselves. Last year, a friend brought up one of his antique weapons, a recreation of a Hackebut. We set off car alarms for a 1/4 mile radius.

  • Morris and I have been seeing the TV ads for those green ceramic skillets. I wish they also came in pancake griddle-shape.

    • CJ

      They are very good. Mine is Oziel or something similar, and it is so nice I want the whole set!

    • My grandmother had three skillets. A small and large cast iron skillet, both fine tools, and a large steel or iron skillet with some kind of ceramic coating, brilliant white when it’s freshly cleaned. Its only drawback is its old fashioned handle. (Come to think of it, maybe I could get that remedied.)

      The thing dates from at least the 1950’s, probably earlier. She was married at 17 and had my mom some years later, in the 1930’s. My grandmother grew up helping her mama cook from the time my grandmother was very little. So there’s no telling when that skillet is from.

      It is very good to cook with. The iron/steel underneath means it retains heat for a long time. The ceramic coating means it is easy to work with. (Hmm, and now that I think of it, I need to find where I moved it when I brought it home.) That ceramic coating, though, tends to show discoloration from cooking or from metal utensils or scrubbing pads. So you have to keep it spotless. (Besides, my grandmother wouldn’t abide it in any but pristine state.)

      So that green ceramic coated skillet sounds wonderful.

      Tomorrow a.m., I’ll find that skillet again. — Very glad I have it, a cast iron skillet, and a good non-stick skillet. — And a wok. I’m still getting used to using a wok, but it’s a fantastic tool.

      Hmm. Somehow, somewhere, I need to find a lid for the smaller skillet, though. I bought one lid that is far too big for the pan, and so I’m not satisfied with the new lid. It suits very large pans or a cooking pot, but not a small to medium sized skillet.

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